Evidence of meeting #39 for National Defence in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.
A video is available from Parliament.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy-Industry, Department of National Defence
Can I take this question on notice and answer in writing?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Charles Sousa
Yes, absolutely.
With that, we will proceed to our next questioner.
Mr. Simard, you have five minutes.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you very much.
This is very interesting. I'm always surprised to hear you talk about BOREALIS. I don't know if you have the rights to that. BOREALIS is a nursery that has existed in Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean for many years. So we'll see whether they take issue with you on that.
I would like to come back to a subject that I think is very important, namely the links between the various strategies. Over the past seven or eight months, the federal government has announced an electrification strategy. It has also announced a critical minerals strategy. Today, we saw the report of the task force on the forestry industry. All of these strategies exist to create industrial clusters. In these various strategies that are expected to create industrial clusters, there is the possibility of contracts with the military sector, because substantial military spending will be forthcoming.
To my mind, however, the devil is in the details. I wonder how those clusters will be created. There are people in my riding who have very interesting solutions and whom I am trying to put in touch with ministers' parliamentary secretaries. To get concrete results, however, I sense that we have a long way to go.
I would like to know if you have a strategy for successfully creating those clusters. It's not a trick question, and I'm not trying to make anyone look bad. I'm asking you this because, for each element I mentioned, there could be some interesting solutions to develop industrial clusters that will be part of the military strategy.
What are your thoughts on that?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement, Defence Investment Agency
Thank you for the question.
The defence industrial strategy represents a very important paradigm shift. In the past, decisions were made based on best value. Now, the Defence Investment Agency is responsible for giving significant weight to the economic benefits of projects. Two things are needed to do that properly. First, we need to structure our procurements and contracts to promote those benefits by using evaluation criteria that take them into account. Second, we need to know the industry and what it has to offer in order to create those links. So there's work to be done with our colleagues. Many of them are at the table today.
We have already started increasing our knowledge of the industry, and we will continue to do so quickly in order to create those links. When we establish partnerships and meet with various suppliers, we need to provide direction. That's certainly true for Canadian suppliers, but it's especially true for foreign suppliers. The secretary of state mentioned Saab, for example. In some cases, they don't know everyone. So we have to direct them. For example, for such and such an artificial intelligence capacity, we tell them they can go to such and such a place. So it's partly a question of helping major suppliers really understand what Canada can offer, by paying particular attention to the foreign companies we do business with.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Robitaille.
You're putting your finger on something that I think is very important. I don't know if that's going to show up in the report.
Let me give you a very concrete example. There is a company called IDEA Contrôle that we are in discussions with at the Standing Committee on Natural Resources. That company stores energy. It will be able to reduce diesel consumption in the north by 25% to 30% using storage strategies. The people who know about this—I'm not an engineer—say this is a turning point for the industry.
So we start with those people and ponder how to connect with someone from the soon-to-be-established defence agency. That's where it becomes difficult for a politician. How do we take the next step?
This is not a criticism, but I get the sense that, right now, for politicians or entrepreneurs in that situation, the system is not user-friendly, in the sense that it is difficult to make those initiatives known. I understand that there is a whole validation process at your end, but it seems to me that that is missing right now.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Industry Sector, Department of Industry
Maybe I can just briefly mention that, given the mandate of my department, we regularly meet with companies in a number of different sectors that we would consider to be dual-use, so they're not sectors that have been traditionally associated with defence. That includes, as you mentioned, companies in areas like energy storage, other clean technologies, critical minerals, steel and aluminum—I know there was a question earlier on aluminum—and medical countermeasures. These are all areas that we are trying to leverage as part of our building up of a defence industrial base.
We are more than happy to meet with companies in those areas. We work very closely with the Defence Investment Agency, as well as with the Department of National Defence, in order to try to help companies navigate this, and the concierge service will be an important tool to do that on a go-forward basis.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Thank you.
Can anybody tell me how many scientists work at BOREALIS full-time?
Director General, BOREALIS Joint Program Office, Defence Research and Development Canada, Department of National Defence
We currently have 25 people working at BOREALIS. We started with two, so we've been growing very quickly.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Thank you very much.
Can you answer the same question for DRDC?
Director General, BOREALIS Joint Program Office, Defence Research and Development Canada, Department of National Defence
There are 1,600 people at DRDC.
Conservative
Director General, BOREALIS Joint Program Office, Defence Research and Development Canada, Department of National Defence
They're not all scientists. There are about 900 or so technical and scientific staff.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Okay.
Can you tell me how many bureaucrats work at BOREALIS—non-scientists?
Director General, BOREALIS Joint Program Office, Defence Research and Development Canada, Department of National Defence
Actually, our workforce is primarily scientists. I am a scientist myself. I'm a physicist, and I lead the team. We are primarily a scientific workforce. We also employ engineers and a few policy analysts, but they also normally have a technical background.
Conservative
Director General, BOREALIS Joint Program Office, Defence Research and Development Canada, Department of National Defence
As mentioned, we have 900 research and technical staff. We have support staff who, for example, support the laboratories and the maintenance of infrastructure, which I would also consider technical. There are, of course, some corporate functions as well.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Thank you very much.
When evaluating major procurements—this question would be for Mr. Robitaille—what weighting is assigned to military capability, cost, delivery schedule, industrial benefits, Canadian content and so on?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement, Defence Investment Agency
Those are considerations that are part of every procurement. The exact weighting depends on our specific requirements.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
In this case, would it reside with the minister or the CEO?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement, Defence Investment Agency
It's typically done collaboratively with our partners at National Defence and CAF.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
Who makes the decision? Who establishes the metric you're going to use on each procurement problem?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement, Defence Investment Agency
Ultimately, the Defence Investment Agency, as the procurement authority, has the final say. This is done very collaboratively with our colleagues at National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces, as well as with our friends at ISED.
Conservative
Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC
I want to clear up something here. The minister, the CEO or somebody in that department has the ability to use $1 billion dollars without reporting to Parliament before it's spent. Is that correct?
Is there any mechanism in the DIS that forces the minister to report prior to spending money?
