Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 9th, 2006

[Dr. Kim Kasperski]

We're talking about the mature fine tailings. One of the things that has to be addressed by the industry is dealing with the stored, accumulated volumes. So in this consolidated treatment process, they dredge it up and pump it to big mixing chambers where they mix it with the fresh sand. And as those solids settle, they settle together. The clay particles are in the interstices of the sand--in between the sand grains--so the whole thing settles as a mass. That's where the clay ends up, mixed with the sand until it forms a solid surface. The water rises to the top, it's pumped off, and you're left with a solid surface. That's what they do with the clay.

Does that answer your question?

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Is it inert?

[Dr. Kim Kasperski]

Is it inert? Yes. These are like koalinite, which is the stuff that coats paper. These are just ordinary clays and montmorillonite--well, there are traces of that. It's inert, just like anything you'll find in your soil in your garden. The things that may not be inert are the soluble particles in the water, which is still in the pores of that mixture--the organic compounds, the salts, and so on.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

But are there toxins left in that?

[Dr. Kim Kasperski]

That's what I was referring to, the stuff that's left in the water, like naphthenic acids, the salts, and so on. It's actually quite—

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

It is quite toxic.

[Dr. Kim Kasperski]

It's acutely toxic, yes. It does decrease over time. Also, the high salinity has issues with respect to plant growth.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

For how long? You said it's toxic and will reduce over time. How long will it be?

[Dr. Kim Kasperski]

In studies that were done maybe ten years or so ago, they were trying out these natural wetlands to see how they would reduce toxicity. Within months there was a significant reduction. So they estimate--project--maybe a year or two, but that's as long as you don't have any fresh input of new tailings, which would keep the toxicity up.

But one thing that will not disappear is the salinity. Unless you treat the water, it will stay there.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Do I have any more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

You're three minutes over your time.

That's very good. It's exactly the kind of thing that I think the committee is looking for.

In anticipation of our visit, Ms. Griffiths was mentioning that we would be hearing from some of the native bands in the area. We have Pat Martel coming before the committee in two weeks to discuss the impact on some of the native communities around the sites.

In addition to that, I think this meeting today has probably, more so than ever, stimulated an interest in visiting and actually seeing these ponds and their reclamation, or not, with our own eyes. So I think that will be very effective.

Thank you for those answers.

I'm going to move now to Mr. Harris.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. I appreciate you being here.

I have a number of questions. I'll try to make them short, and we'll try to complement with short answers if we can, although we probably could use more time.

This appears to be a very serious issue we're talking about today, and an issue that is crying out for solutions. This is the first time I think that you folks have been to this committee on this issue.

How long has this been perceived as a problem? Just quickly, how many years have we been aware of this problem?

[Margaret McCuaig-Johnston]

Dr. Kasperski could perhaps answer that question for you.

[Dr. Kim Kasperski]

Soon after Suncor started is when they perceived that there would be a tailings problem. It was when their ponds started. But the cumulative effects have just been since five years ago, when all these other operators put in plans to develop surface mine operations.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

When did Suncor start up? How many years ago?

[Dr. Kim Kasperski]

In 1967.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Oh, 1967, okay.

[Dr. Kim Kasperski]

Yes, centennial year.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

All right. I'm trying to get an idea of how long this has been going on, so I can go to the next question.

[Mary Griffiths]

Back in 1995, when the provincial government gave royalty breaks, it was thought that we might have one million barrels by 2015. We had a million barrels in 2004, so I think the whole problem grew much faster than they had anticipated.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I guess that leads to my next question, since their considering it appears to have been around for some years.

How many times have you appeared before the Standing Committee on Natural Resources on this issue, as you are today?

[Jim Vollmershausen]

Going by that, no.

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Never? Ms. Griffiths, never?

[Dr. Mary Griffiths]

No.

[Margaret McCuaig-Johnston]

I haven't appeared before, but our director general, Hassan Hamza, was here several weeks ago speaking about oil sands challenges.