Natural Resources Committee on April 1st, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We were carrying out debate on the motion, so we will just continue that and go to the question, hopefully, as soon as possible. You have the minutes of the--

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

I don't completely remember where we were in the debate.

One thing, though, that has come to my attention over the last couple weeks during the break period is that evidently the finance committee put forward a rather specific series of resolutions on this issue having to do with forestry. One of the things they put in there was a call to have a round-table conference, a meeting--I forget the specific terms--a national forestry summit. It struck me as a little bit odd that the finance committee would get around to it before the natural resources committee would--not that I think we're too offended by our finance committee colleagues, but it would have been nice to have it come from here rather than from finance.

That's one thing I would like to put on the table--that it would have been nice if we could have done it first or could have been the committee responsible for it, rather than another committee that's not so directly involved with the industry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Trost, just for clarification, what are you suggesting here? You said another committee has already brought this forth, but what does that mean?

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Well, I was just suggesting that we've had two weeks. If people are ready to pass the motion now, okay; if people are going to vote it down, of course I'm not going to put it here, because I don't want the motion defeated. I'd be willing to lay it off for a later period, which is one of the things that was being suggested last time. I'm just checking now to see if the members are still of that view after two weeks of recess and the new actions taken at the finance committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Alghabra, go ahead.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do appreciate the sentiment and I agree with him that although the finance committee passed a motion, this is probably the appropriate place to do it, except we are doing a comprehensive study. Probably their motion was just a symbolic gesture or they were adding their opinion on what needs to be done. I think many of us indicated before we went on our Easter break that we were all in agreement with the sentiment and the idea, but we want to put it within a framework and a comprehensive report that outlines the framework and the recommendation for the summit and other items that the governments can do. I think this might be pre-emptive and I'd like to see it within the report, rather than imply that this was the only outcome of the study, which, as you know, includes a lot of other components.

I would hope that we would include it in the report rather than vote on it today, because I think it's short on details and it would give the study injustice.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We have Mr. Anderson, Mr. Boshcoff, and Madame DeBellefeuille on the issue, and then hopefully we can decide how to proceed from there.

Go ahead, Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Chair, I think this was a good leadership initiative by Mr. Trost. If it's going to turn into a symbolic gesture, which Mr. Alghabra says is all it is, it's going to be because the opposition does not want to go ahead with it. We can certainly include it in the report, but we're into April already. It seems as though for the last six months, the opposition has.... We've switched topics; we've talked very much about doing forestry and getting our report out, but we're still not at the point of having a finished forestry report. We would like to see that as quickly as possible, but we think we need to take some initiative on this if we're going to be able to host it and sponsor it.

I think we need to pass the recommendation that we do that and call on the minister to convene this round table and get on with that. That doesn't preclude anything from being in our report; it doesn't preclude having a report with other recommendations, so I think we should pass it.

Mr. Trost has indicated he's willing to table it if the opposition insists on that, but my opinion is that it would show good leadership from this committee to pass this motion and then to try to move ahead with this conference.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Boshcoff is next.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you very much.

Although we've had calls for a national summit probably for over 20 months, it is reassuring to see more people getting on board with this.

The resolution as proposed here is for the Minister of Natural Resources. Clearly, our resolution from this committee would ask the Prime Minister to do this at a national level. The minister can convene this round table at any time. He's been able to do that since being appointed. We know Stéphane Dion did it over a year ago.

In terms of presenting motions and resolutions at this time, I can put forward 15 or 16 of these types of things right now, if we want to do it that way. I thought we were formulating a report as a committee, so I've held back on this type of thing.

But this is flawed. It is not the Minister of Natural Resources we want to do that. He can do it; he could have done it any time over the past two years. We want the Prime Minister to do this and show the significance of forestry on a national basis. That's where this committee, I would think, should be going.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Madame DeBellefeuille.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

It would perhaps be a good idea to remind Mr. Trost that the day before the debate on this motion, the finance committee had already adopted its own motion. Ms. Bell and I had pointed that out at our last meeting.

You will also recall that I had tabled a motion calling on the government to take action by quickly implementing a plan to come to the assistance of the forestry sector. Due to a misunderstanding in translation, I accepted Mr. Allen's amendment; he said that it was a good recommendation, but that we could wait until the end of the report to propose concrete measures designed to assist the forestry sector, which was facing a major crisis at the time.

That logic goes both ways. So if this emergency plan can wait until the end of the report, I think that a motion on a round table, a conference or a summit can easily be part of a report as a recommendation.

My position remains the same, Mr. Chairman. I invite Mr. Trost to incorporate his recommendation into the report that we will be considering shortly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Ms. DeBellefeuille.

Mr. Comuzzi is next on the list. Go ahead.

[Joe Comuzzi, Conservative, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you.

It bothers me, Mr. Chairman—I happen to live in an area that is drastically affected by the problems faced by the forestry industry—that this committee is sitting around listening to all of the evidence without having the will to say there's something that has to be done immediately about this particular industry, the second largest industry in Canada. The industry has some serious flaws that have to be corrected.

We've waited I think two weeks since it was brought up to this committee. We're wasting time. It's an industry. Every one of us in this room has people who are looking for jobs, who are laid off, and at other companies being laid off, and we're not doing anything of a positive nature to correct this as a government.

This round table or symposium that we're proposing is something that would get people to act immediately. I think we're wasting time deciding whether we should do it or not do it. We should be spending our time talking about what the rules of engagement would be, spending time talking about what the committee's mandate should be, and spending time talking about who should be on the committee from among the most important experts in our country who know a great deal about forestry and about the future of forestry, rather than members of Parliament who have a general knowledge.

All we know, Mr. Chairman, is the problems that we face, as we heard a little while ago, about transportation. We should be spending our time deciding who should be on that committee and what its mandate should be, rather than whether we should have the committee.

So I'm urging my colleagues here to move on it, and now it's up to you folks. But...Jesus!

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Comuzzi, it's clear there is a disagreement on this.

Go ahead, Mr. Trost.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Mr. Chair, my view has changed during the debate here. If the opposition wants to nitpick this in the future and force it to be the Prime Minister instead of the Minister of Natural Resources, my offer to table is off the table. I will be calling for a vote on this, my motion, today. I'm asking for the question to be put.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We have to hear the rest of the people who want to speak. There are three more on the list. We could do that and then go to a vote.

Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, I tabled an AECL report a few weeks ago. I tried to put one together and after a discussion with the committee members there was an agreement that we have a comprehensive report. Let's make sure there's substance and we listen to witnesses and let's look at it from a holistic approach, a non-partisan approach. We just spent the last few weeks examining witnesses. We and all the party leaders have indicated this is a good initiative.

I think it's a sneaky way of saying this is short-term or this is what the recommendation needs to be. We're going to have a comprehensive report. I agreed with the committee after the debate to table my AECL recommendation in exchange for a full report. I'm surprised Mr. Trost is changing his mind, because he tends to have a very open mind and is able to work with his colleagues, but it's up to him: it's his motion.

I wanted to make it very clear that this is an attempt to shortchange the report the committee's doing, and if he wants to table it, we're not going to be supporting this one-dimensional, short-sighted attempt at presenting recommendations after the weeks of study the committee has done.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Point of order, Mr. Tonks.

[Alan Tonks, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I was just talking with our researcher. It was my understanding that we had deferred this decision with respect to the format and so on pending the opportunity to have the report.

I think we're a little bit out of order. I think we should table this discussion. I understand from our researcher that we are going to have that report available, and you may wish to clarify this, Mr. Chairman, but I think it's very important for us to see that report and then to take this and look at the format we wish to have.

I thought that's what we had agreed on more or less at the end of the discussion we had. Perhaps you could ask the researcher to clarify that for us, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

That was the final issue I was going to talk about today, that the draft report should be ready Wednesday night or Thursday morning. So that's another issue for us to decide: what we do with the committee meeting on Thursday, because people will need a chance to look at the report before we start discussing it. But that's a different issue.

Ms. Bell, you are on the list.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Before I make my comments, I would like to know the answer to Mr. Tonks' question as to whether or not this discussion is in order. I believe that was what you asked.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Yes, the discussion is in order.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

So we didn't table the motion pending the report? That was my understanding of the question he asked. I'm a little confused.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We are debating the motion. I hope we'll go to the question on the motion.