Natural Resources Committee on Jan. 16th, 2008

[Gary Lunn, Conservative, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Listen, we had no choice but to act. That's what governments must do.

As the situation unfolded, we took the appropriate steps at the appropriate times by gathering the information, by working with and encouraging both agencies to try to find solutions, and by encouraging the former president and CEO of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission to put this matter before the commission so that a decision could be rendered.

Again, when it became abundantly that this reactor could operate safer than before, and that this was not a safety issue, our government was in no position.... No way were we going to let the lives of Canadians be put at risk. We had to take action, and we did. Those were the circumstances.

That's what governments must do. They must act.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Trost has a question, I think, to wrap up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

You have about a minute left, Mr. Trost.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to put on the record here a couple of things, because we're getting the impression from some members of the committee that once you're appointed to the CNSC, you're in a little crystal box, and you can't be touched. I want to mention two things in the act.

Number one, under subsection 19(1) there are directives:

The Governor in Council may, by order, issue to the Commission directives of general application on broad policy matters with respect to the objects of the Commission.

Also, section 12(4) says:

...the President shall make such reports to the Minister as the Minister may require concerning the general administration and management....

I wonder, Mr. Minister, if you could very briefly comment. It appears from this legislation that CNSC does have continuing, ongoing interaction with you. Could you comment on what that interaction has been in the past under previous ministers, and under you in normal circumstances?

[Gary Lunn, Conservative, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Again, I've had no issues in the past.

I will say that it's important for a minister of the crown. They have interaction with their agency heads, including regulators, on administrative matters.

Also, it's very clear that given the statutory powers of the president and CEO of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, they don't have to be a passive regulator. They could have called the commission themselves without having any material for them. They didn't have to wait for AECL even to present a safety case that they believed this was in the public interest. She could have amended the licence of her own accord. These powers are within the executive powers of that office.

So, Mr. Chair, again, I will only conclude by saying that there was absolutely no interference with respect to her decision or authority, but the Government of Canada has clearly lost confidence in her ability to exercise her executive powers in the role as president and CEO of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Trost.

We have a point of order from Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, before we wrap up, I just had an indication that you have some information about this afternoon's meeting, and I'd like us to know about it before we wrap up so we can decide what we're going to do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

I certainly will. We're finished with the questioning of the minister now, then?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

If you have time, we have more questions, but I thought you might wrap up. If not, we have more questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

For the committee's information, I do have some information I want to give them once we're through questioning the minister. It does pertain to this afternoon's meeting, and I think it is important that the committee hear it. I certainly won't adjourn the meeting until we've done that.

The minister did agree at the start of the meeting to extend for a while if members wanted.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

The reason I'm asking that we get the news first is that we might invite the minister to come back later this afternoon. So I just want to hear from you first what the information is.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Alghabra.

Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Chair, the minister has been good enough to be here for two hours. He's willing to stay for a few more minutes. If the opposition has anything that's seizing their attention, I think they should follow through with that when we come to the end of the meeting. The motion yesterday suggested he should be here from ten till twelve. He has been very generous with his time and done that, so I think we should move on, unless there's something they're absolutely seized with.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

I certainly won't get into the issue of future committee business with the minister at the table. So we will finish with the minister and then go on to give the information about this afternoon's meeting.

Are there any other questions for the minister? He's agreed to stay if there are. If there are not, we'll wrap that part of the meeting up.

Mr. McGuinty.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, just on this point of order, it's very material what will happen this afternoon, because it has a direct bearing on what kinds of questions we may want to put to the minister, who has kindly agreed already to extend his stay, and we welcome his stay. I think it would be very important for all committee members. I'm sure the government members would want to hear if there are any material changes to this afternoon's plans and that would have a direct bearing on the questions that all members of Parliament, I am sure, would want to put to the minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. McGuinty.

Madame DeBellefeuille.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

I would like to ask the minister one last question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Madame DeBellefeuille, I thought you were speaking on the point of order. So we will continue with that.

I'd like to get an indication as to whether there are more questions for the minister at this time. He has agreed to....

There are? Okay.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, my point of order is relevant to the fact that if we have new information, it will be material to the line of questions that we will be asking the minister. That's why we're saying that we need to understand what new information you have before we decide what types of questions we want to ask the minister, and perhaps extend another invitation to the minister.

I'm asking if you could please share with us the information you have so that we can decide what we're going to do next, because it's relevant.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Again, as I've said, I'm not going to get into business like that with the minister at the table. I have never before seen that done, and I don't think it's appropriate.

We do have a list of speakers.

Is this on the point of order, Ms. Bell?

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

No, I have a question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Then we'll go, on the point of order, to Mr. Trost.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to say on this point of order that yesterday we had some votes, we had some motions. We on the government side were proposing to have the minister come back after Ms. Keen. We made all these offers. The opposition ran over the government on the vote when we were trying to compromise, have him come second, etc.

You guys voted for this. You should actually have the integrity to stand behind what you voted for yesterday and live with it instead of trying to change something every few minutes.

He is prepared to stay another 20 or 30 minutes, whatever it is. Let's get these questions done. We can grab our lunch very quickly here.

You should live with the votes you guys made yesterday instead of trying to change your mind every few minutes. I realize that's the history of the Liberal Party, but at least someone should be consistent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you.

Mr. Anderson, on the point of order.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I think the minister's schedule is limited. He has offered to stay for a few minutes. If the opposition is running out of energy on their questions, as it seems they are, that's not our problem. He is willing to stay here and answer the questions. He has been very good this morning.

Let's finish off the questioning and let's decide what we're doing with the rest of our day.