Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 10th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Hyer, I would just inform you that if in the future you ask a series of questions, at the end of your time there will be no response. So ensure that you leave enough time for answers and make your questions appropriate. It's a tactic that sometimes has been used in the past, but it will not be used in this committee, and I'm sure you didn't intend that.

Ms. Doyle, you could answer the questions that you would like to in a very short time, like a minute. Thank you.

[Cassie Doyle]

Congratulations on your election to Parliament.

Let me first speak to the question you had about public relations. This funding that was made available in budget 2008 was really in response to the forest industry coming to government and asking for assistance to combat campaigns that were going on, particularly in Europe, against Canadian forest products on the basis of them not being sustainable. What they called the leadership for environmental advantage in forestry initiative is very much in response to that. It involves information development and analysis and market outreach, as well as funding for certain reporting and some science within our department to verify the sustainability of forest products. So it's more than just public relations. There is very sophisticated campaigning that they see as a threat to market development internationally.

On the money available for innovation, I would refer you to the minister's comments about Forest Products Innovations or FPInnovations. It is the largest non-profit research institute, and we are funding it, along with industry. We'd be happy to give you more information on that.

On the question of credit, I'll ask my colleague here to respond.

[Leon Benoit, Conservative, Vegreville—Wainwright, AB]

Mr. Dupont.

[Serge Dupont]

For the honourable member's information, there are a few provisions in the budget that are not specifically directed to the forest sector but are broadly available. There is additional funding available through the BDC for small and medium-sized businesses. Funding is available through Export Development Canada for exports, but also, as stipulated in the budget, in some instances for domestic financing or insurance. So there are overall provisions to try to facilitate funding for entities that may now be in a better position to approach these institutions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you for very much.

For up to five minutes, Madame Brunelle.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

My apologies. I missed the Liberals.

Mr. Bains and Mr. Regan, splitting the time for up to five minutes.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

I just had flashbacks on routine motions and the discussion that took place with respect to allocation on time, and I wondered if I had missed something on that important and intense debate. Thank you very much for that correction and for giving me the opportunity to ask some questions.

I had a question, Mr. Dupont, that you briefly discussed earlier. I just want clarity. When did you or the department receive the strategic report on AECL prepared by the National Bank?

[Serge Dupont]

There was one report completed by the National Bank in August 2008.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

You received the report in August 2008, and the minister has indicated earlier that she has not seen this report. Is that correct?

[Serge Dupont]

Yes, that is what the minister has indicated.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

There are people looking for clarity in the direction of AECL. There has been money allocated in the budget for AECL, and AECL is making a provincial bid. This report is very important because it outlines their strategic direction. You've indicated in your earlier remarks that market conditions have changed or are changing, which is understandable, but don't you think it is important that the minister see this report so that there is clarity on the decisions that are being made, especially with respect to the future direction of AECL and also with the millions of dollars that are being allocated toward future initiatives?

[Serge Dupont]

Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the question.

You will appreciate that as new ministers come on board they are briefed by the department on a range of issues. That would have included the family of issues related to AECL, its current and its future issues. In that context, there certainly would have been a reference to some of the works of National Bank.

To address one of the earlier points you mentioned as well, we have made a point of ensuring with National Bank that additional work was done on the question of the Ontario competition and how a response by AECL in that particular process would affect options and choices related to atomic energy.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

I greatly appreciate that, and that makes a lot of sense, but that report is very important. We've been asking for that report in opposition for quite some time, and the public has been waiting for that report. I understand the complexity that's entailed in the report, but that report was tabled six months ago. The minister has claimed she has not seen it.

Can you give any indication when it will be brought to her attention?

[Serge Dupont]

One indication I can provide, Mr. Chairman, is that National Bank was not asked to provide a strategic plan for AECL. A strategic plan will have to be developed by the corporation itself with the government and so forth. It was specific works, related, for example, to the valuation of some of the assets, related to some of the interest that there may be on the part of certain investors to invest in the corporation. Those are commercially very sensitive and would be quite valuable in the hands of some private investors looking to position themselves in the marketplace.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

That is a concern too because that addresses the concern that we have in opposition and Canadians have. It is the fact that we don't know what the status of that report is in the measures you have indicated. Also, is AECL going to be privatized, for example? Does this report indicate, one way or the other, on balance, the position the government should take?

It's been in the department and obviously you have been looking at this. We understand the complexity. I don't know what the appropriate time limit would be, but six months seems to be sufficient time for the department to at least examine the report thoroughly and to be able to make recommendations to the minister, or at least present the report to the minister so that the minister can't say she hasn't seen the report, knowing full well the department has had it for six months.

Can you indicate, from your perspective, what the timeline is and when this report will be given to the minister?

[Serge Dupont]

As I've indicated, a report was provided in August. Additional work was conducted by National Bank itself, and then we have to bring that together with a number of other factors, and it is that collection of analysis and issues that is brought to the minister and to the government's attention.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you.

Mr. Regan, you have 30 seconds.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

The supplementary estimates (B) show $20 million for the ecoENERGY retrofit program. Is there any connection between that adjustment and the lack of funding extension for the very successful ecoENERGY renewable power program? Why has it not been extended?

[Cassie Doyle]

On the question of whether there's a relationship between the $20 million we're requesting in supplementary estimates (B) for ecoENERGY retrofit, there is no connection. What we're looking to do is to advance funds that were dedicated to ecoENERGY retrofit into this year, as I mentioned, to meet the unprecedented demand for that program. There is no connection between that fund and the funds made available under the ecoENERGY renewable power program.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

The second question is, why has the ecoENERGY renewable power program not been extended?

[Cassie Doyle]

I can give you some information on that program. We have allocated about one-third of the funding under our ecoENERGY renewables program at present. The program itself is not complete. We're right in the middle of doing the due diligence necessary on each application that comes in. So for ecoENERGY renewables, I believe the amount of approximately $600 million has been committed out of a $1.5 billion program.

From our perspective in the department, it's a program that we're actively managing right now and will continue through the rest of this next fiscal year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Madame Brunelle, for just a couple of minutes, and then we have to get to the votes on the supplementary estimates.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I'd like to follow up on my colleague's remarks.

I'm very troubled by the demise of the MAPLE project. The government has assured us that this decision will not affect the production of isotopes in any way. However, many questions remain unanswered.

Is AECL under any obligation to respect the terms of its contract with MDS Nordion for the production of isotopes? I believe this contract was concluded in 2006 and is valid for 40 years. If the terms of the contract are not met, will legal action be taken? How do we deal with this, in light of the demand for isotopes? Remember the major headaches this caused for users and for doctors in particular.

[Serge Dupont]

Thank you for your question.

This is a fairly complex issue. AECL does indeed have a contractual relationship with MDS Nordion. You asked if the situation has resulted in any disputes. In fact, MDS Nordion has already alleged that AECL was under the obligation to complete its MAPLE reactors. AECL sees things differently. I don't want to get into this further, but this sensitive matter is scheduled to go before the courts.

All I can say at this time is the AECL and the Government of Canada remain committed to continuing to supply medical isotopes to meet the needs of the health system. They are looking at what needs to be done to extend the licence to operate the existing reactor beyond the year 2011.