Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 18th, 2009

Evidence of meeting #40 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was reactor.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-20, An Act respecting civil liability and compensation for damage in case of a nuclear incident

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Norman Rubin Director, Nuclear Research, Energy Probe

Rex Loesby President, Canadian Remote Power Corporation

Albert Sweetnam Executive Vice-President, Nuclear New Build, Ontario Power Generation Inc.

Pierre Tremblay Senior Vice-President, Nuclear Programs and Training, Ontario Power Generation Inc.

Simon Carroll Programme Officer, Swedish Biodiversity Centre, As an Individual

Christopher Heysel Director, Nuclear Operations and Facilities, McMaster Nuclear Reactor, McMaster University

Dermot Murphy Manager, Nuclear Insurance Association of Canada

John Walker Legal Counsel, Walker Sorensen LLP, Nuclear Insurance Association of Canada

Colleen DeMerchant Assistant Manager, Nuclear Insurance Association of Canada

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Mr. Regan talked about the charter of rights. When we were here the other day, the CNSC was saying that there has been CNSC regulation for around 63 years, and there have been no incidents in this country. I think we need to come back to that and realize that we have a strong safety record in this country. Our safety record certainly should play into the aspect of responsibility and liability that's required. Is that fair to say?

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Manager, Nuclear Insurance Association of Canada

Colleen DeMerchant

We believe that excellent nuclear regulator oversight and excellent operator responsibility, coupled with responsible insurers of high-quality capital, are the answer to meeting the public's requirements for good protection under this regime.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Do you believe our safety standards meet or exceed international expectations?

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Manager, Nuclear Insurance Association of Canada

Colleen DeMerchant

From the surveys that we conduct on the stations, we are of the opinion that our stations are operated to a very high standard.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Mr. Heysel, you say you have a non-profit reactor, and I think that's true. I'm wondering how much commercial activity takes place with your reactors. Is there a fair amount of commercial activity, or is that all university research? What would be the proportion there?

5:20 p.m.

Director, Nuclear Operations and Facilities, McMaster Nuclear Reactor, McMaster University

Christopher Heysel

Probably about 90% of our costs are borne by commercial or service provision. The amount of money we receive from researchers, user fees, and that type of income stream is fairly low.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

A fairly large aspect of what you're doing has a commercial component to it.

November 18th, 2009 / 5:20 p.m.

Director, Nuclear Operations and Facilities, McMaster Nuclear Reactor, McMaster University

Christopher Heysel

That's correct.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

I understand that your insurance coverage has been about $1.5 million. I assume that's been in place for decades and came in with the Nuclear Liability Act. Is that correct?

5:20 p.m.

Director, Nuclear Operations and Facilities, McMaster Nuclear Reactor, McMaster University

Christopher Heysel

That's correct.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

The government has been picking up about $73 million of that. You're suggesting that this change in the act is going to slightly more than double your requirement for insurance, to about $3.6 million. The government would pick up $646 million of reinsurance on that.

5:20 p.m.

Director, Nuclear Operations and Facilities, McMaster Nuclear Reactor, McMaster University

Christopher Heysel

That's correct.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

You made the point that you think that's too high. You actually made the suggestion that you'd like it reduced to $250,000.

5:20 p.m.

Director, Nuclear Operations and Facilities, McMaster Nuclear Reactor, McMaster University

Christopher Heysel

That's correct.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

You paid $1.5 million for 30 years and you find it reasonable to make a request that it be reduced to $250,000?

5:20 p.m.

Director, Nuclear Operations and Facilities, McMaster Nuclear Reactor, McMaster University

Christopher Heysel

I think my argument is based on the evolution of other factors that have come into play. We now have other costs, such as decommissioning and fuel costs, which put us at a really unfair advantage to the other research reactors out there. So I'd like to level the playing field on all of those costs to the facilities.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

He means disadvantage.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

You mean disadvantage, right?

5:20 p.m.

Director, Nuclear Operations and Facilities, McMaster Nuclear Reactor, McMaster University

Christopher Heysel

Yes, disadvantage.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Going from $1.5 million to $3.6 million in coverage, do you have any idea what that does to your insurance costs?

5:20 p.m.

Director, Nuclear Operations and Facilities, McMaster Nuclear Reactor, McMaster University

Christopher Heysel

I haven't got an estimate of it yet, but I think it'll be a PY for me.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

This bill has been here three times. Can you tell me why this has never been an issue until today?

5:20 p.m.

Director, Nuclear Operations and Facilities, McMaster Nuclear Reactor, McMaster University

Christopher Heysel

I haven't been asked, until last Thursday, to appear before the committee.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

So you weren't aware until last week, or whatever, that this would be an issue?

5:25 p.m.

Director, Nuclear Operations and Facilities, McMaster Nuclear Reactor, McMaster University

Christopher Heysel

I was aware of the bill, but I wasn't aware I had a voice to speak to this committee.