Natural Resources Committee on April 29th, 2010

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

But let's be clear. If somebody decided today that they wanted to retrofit their home, save energy, reduce their loss of energy and their greenhouse gas emissions, they couldn't start that today and rely on this program. Is that right?

[Victor Fiume]

They could not rely on the program. They could rely on the energy savings they will get in retrofitting their home.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

The point is, they could start today and could hire any company that's doing this kind of work, but they can't look to the retrofit program, because it's already committed and there's no money available. What's clear since March 31—what was announced, of course—is that the government said no, you can't apply any more.

[Victor Fiume]

As I see it, yes, that's correct: there are no more applications being taken. For us, we see this hopefully as a temporary measure.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Alan Tonks]

You have 30 seconds.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I'll hand it over to the next person, I guess.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Alan Tonks]

Thank you very much.

Madame Brunelle.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Good morning, gentlemen. Thank you for being here.

Mr. Brunet, you were an advisor, and Natural Resources Canada provided us with a report regarding participation. According to that report, I see that in Canada, there were 1,953 energy efficiency advisors, and you were one of them, were you not?

[Martin Brunet]

Yes.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I see that in Quebec, there were just 134 advisors, resulting in $47,000 in pre-retrofit applications, whereas in Ontario, there were 1,182 advisors. That did not strike me as a fair distribution of advisors, and I was wondering whether you could explain that.

Why was it so unfair?

[Martin Brunet]

Quebec has different bureaucratic requirements for energy evaluations. It is much more controlled. Quebec has much more control over how the program is administered. We can offer our services in Quebec, but we cannot cover the provincial portion, just the federal portion.

So, for Quebeckers, the important thing is to choose a company that is registered with the province, not just the federal government.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Does that mean then that, if we brought back this program, there would first need to be agreements between the Quebec government and the federal government?

[Martin Brunet]

I think so.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

That might be a solution.

Mr. Fiume, you said a number of things I found interesting. You talked about new trades in energy efficiency. I would like you to elaborate on that a bit.

You talked about the home as a system. I have a vague idea of what that might involve, but I would like you to explain it in more detail.

No evaluations have been done under this program since March 31, 2010. We just talked about it. It is shameful that it has not been renewed.

If the government were to bring back the program, should it not focus on alternative energy sources, such as solar and geothermal?

[Victor Fiume]

Initiatives such as geothermal are very important, but they're also very costly. We could do so much more in a house with a lot fewer dollars. Just replacing your shower head with a low-flow shower head cuts your gas or electricity consumption, and it also requires municipalities to use less energy to purify water. Something as simple as a $15 shower head, while it doesn't replace the geothermal heating system, goes a long way to reducing your costs.

What's important is that homeowners see the benefits of what they are investing in. If they don't see the benefits for the dollars they're putting out, they will not continue with energy efficiency programs on their own. We have to include the whole slate of programs, including geothermal, including solar hot water panels, but we should not overlook those products that anybody can buy at a hardware store that will increase energy efficiency in their home. Certainly, for a $15 shower head, I'm not sure we need a government grant to put it in our homes.

In terms of jobs, I can reference what Monsieur Brunet said, that many jobs have been created, in the insulation area, geothermal, solar panels.... Our hope really is that because of the awareness and the momentum we have built up through this program, many of these jobs will be taken up in the new home sector as well. Many people who do ecoENERGY audits are also consultants and do work with builders related to their new home production. I'm not sure we'll see the drop in jobs that we may anticipate. And again, hopefully it's temporary and we can pick them back up as soon as the new program is created.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Are there incentive programs for new homes to use alternative energy sources? Should we not focus on new homes, as well?

[Victor Fiume]

In the case of many of the programs, there are no grants or rebates available for new homes. There is very little available. Basically, the programs across Canada are driven voluntarily by builders in this industry who have a commitment to energy efficiency and to building better homes. It's our position that you let the private sector move forward with this initiative. In Ontario, 22% of the single detached homes that were built last year were enrolled in Energy Star, which is completely voluntary. The homebuyers voted with their wallets and decided to buy a home that is more energy efficient than a code-built home.

I don't know that you need to change that system. You need to support it with research, which we are doing very well with the new initiatives that NRCan has undertaken. That's the level of support that I think we are looking for.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

Good morning, Mr. Elsey.

You are far away, but I can see you. Your organization was created as a result of the lack of effort on Canada's part to promote energy efficiency. That is what you said.

You also said that there were changes—commitments, in any case, to achieving a 20% increase in energy efficiency by certain provinces and territories—but has there been any real progress made?

[Ken Elsey]

There is tremendous progress being made, in actual fact. We've seen the introduction of the Green Energy Act in Ontario, which has taken Ontario into a leadership role in terms of the energy efficiency of new homes. The incentives that have been developed for the electric cars are going to move Ontario tremendously towards a reduction in energy use when transportation is taken into account as well.

Manitoba, B.C., and Quebec have all done tremendous work on energy efficiency. In fact, we issue a report card every two years that reviews the accomplishment of both the federal government and the provinces and territories, and all of Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, and B.C. have received an A in their achievements; that is a progression over several years. So yes, we definitely see real results happening and we expect this to continue.

I'd like to make one comment too concerning incentive programs. I don't see incentive programs as being here forever. At some point we have to phase incentive programs out. But I think what consumers will ultimately realize is that the cost of their energy can be significant and will continue to grow over the coming years, and the energy savings they invest in their home, as Victor said quite clearly, will be the motivation for them to make these changes. Right now these programs are designed to provide a stimulus, I'll call it, to the issue, and I think it is essential in the short term.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Alan Tonks]

Thank you, Madam Brunelle and Mr. Elsey.

We'll now go to Mr. Cullen.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, witnesses.

Mr. Brunet, you talk about the frustration among folks who work in your industry and the homeowners who rely on that industry. Did the federal government consult with your industry before it made this decision?

[Martin Brunet]

Do you mean, to terminate the program?

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

That's correct.

[Martin Brunet]

Not as far as I'm concerned. We were simply given an announcement approximately 20 or so hours before they stopped receiving new entrants.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Was it the same for you, Mr. Fiume, or did you know about this coming, that this program was going to be ended?