Evidence of meeting #29 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was regulations.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Max Ruelokke  Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board
Stuart Pinks  Chief Executive Officer, Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Board
Gaétan Caron  Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board
Bharat Dixit  Team Leader, Conservation of Resources, National Energy Board

11:55 a.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board

Max Ruelokke

Thanks for that question.

I'll start off with the containment effort. The exercise commenced in July. They were joined by BP just about a month ago, so it's still early stages. Most of what they're doing at this point, we think--even though we're not actively involved, and it is being done within the companies--is reviewing what was done, basically the lessons that were learned, if you like, from the Macondo, because that was the first well for which that kind of major subsea containment effort was mounted.

We will engage in that in a couple of ways. My two colleagues have mentioned the International Regulators Forum, of which we are a very active member. The regulator in the U.S. is the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management. Actually we met with the director of that bureau when we were out in Vancouver several weeks ago at our conference, and we meet with his operational staff and discuss a variety of issues. So we'll stay involved and stay up to speed with it through their efforts, because this is basically being done, as we speak, inside the Gulf of Mexico.

The second way we'll get involved in that is that when companies prepare for us an emergency response plan for a new deepwater exploration well, we will require them to address the containment effort they will be able to exert, including where they would get the resources to do that, as part of their emergency response plan. That is something that hasn't been done up until now. That was very much a lesson learned for us. I suspect the lesson will be applied in the same way by our colleagues in Nova Scotia and in the National Energy Board.

The other question you asked, I believe, was what we are doing about lessons learned. One of the things we have learned is that in the Macondo incident, it wasn't so much a matter of regulations not being in place. It was that there wasn't an appropriate safety culture, and we don't think there was an appropriate amount of oversight of what was going on, so a number of things that were done were well outside normal practices.

There were a number of opportunities for intercession that would have been successful if they had been taken earlier to prevent the incident, but for some reason.... We really don't know the reasons yet.

Some of you may be aware that BP came through the Department of Natural Resources to Ottawa and met with all of us to make a presentation on the Macondo incident about three or four weeks ago. They did a three-part presentation for us. There was a gentleman who was part of the engineering investigation team. He talked very frankly about the things that had gone wrong and where they could have been stopped. Another gentleman talked about the containment effort, and the third gentleman talked about the spill response effort. The lessons learned have been that we have good regulatory regimes in place, and our operators have appropriate safety cultures and appropriate practices and procedures, but one lesson is most important in all these incidents. And I've been involved. My company had crew members on the Ocean Ranger. We lost five of our workers there. None of these incidents have happened as a result of one thing going wrong and causing the disaster. They've always been a result of a number of things that of and by themselves would not have led to such tragic consequences, but when they line up, when they occur one after the other after the other, then you get into that kind of situation.

The best way to prevent that is by adopting and imposing an appropriate safety culture. I'll use just one small example: the stop-work authority I referred to. Everybody on a drilling installation that Chevron runs has the ability at any time to stop any work they see ongoing if they believe it is unsafe or if they believe it could lead to an unsafe condition.

A week and a half before the Macondo blowout there was continuous remotely operated vehicle monitoring of the blowout preventer stack and the marine riser. It was noticed that there were bubbles coming from one of the control pods in the BOP stack. That's a no-no. That shouldn't happen. That means something has gone wrong. But it was ignored. Nobody did anything about it. If somebody had said “We have to find out what's wrong there”.... It would have been an expensive effort. In that deep water it would have taken a number of days to pull the marine riser and to pull the BOP stack and inspect it to see what had gone wrong with it. It might have cost $10 million or $15 million. What a marvellous investment that would have been to avoid the catastrophe that happened. A safety culture can stop that.

That's where we're really exerting our maximum efforts, and our operators are making sure we have an appropriate safety culture on every installation in our area.

I could talk about this for a long time. I won't. I'll let it go at that.

Noon

Conservative

Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

Maybe Mr. Pinks can deal with that, but you talk about that safety culture, and you're right. I agree that's important. But at the end of the day, it's still up to that employee or still up to that individual. How can you blend that into your regulatory effects to make sure that the company has actually carried it out and that the employee feels safe doing that?

Noon

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board

Max Ruelokke

Do you want to...?

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Yes, Mr. Pinks, go ahead please.

Noon

Chief Executive Officer, Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Board

Stuart Pinks

I was going to say that we probably all recognize that safety culture is what will drive continual improvement. Really the lesson for us as regulators—and this was discussed at some length at the International Regulators Forum—is how we can promote safety in the offshore and hold operators accountable for continuous improvement; in other words, move past a compliance regime to a continuous improvement regime.

Our new drilling and production regulations really bode well for that sort of approach. They allow us to hold operators accountable for always recognizing and understanding the best practices and best standards for undertaking their work and adopting those in the work they do.

The IRF is a collection of regulators from eight countries around the world--or actually nine, now that Mexico has joined in. Collectively we identified a strategic agenda of issues. We felt that if we focus on certain activities when working together and then working individually within our own countries and our own jurisdictions, that would really drive the continuous improvement and drive the improvement in safety culture.

I will echo Max's comments that the safety culture I've experienced in my work in Nova Scotia—and I also worked previously in Newfoundland—really measures up against some of the best in the world. There really is a good strong safety culture in our offshore--and, I believe, in the Newfoundland offshore as well.

Noon

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you, Mr. Pinks.

Thank you, Mr. Allen. Your time is up.

We go now to the second round, for five minutes, starting with Mr. Andrews.

Noon

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a couple of questions and I'll address them to Mr. Ruelokke.

We've talked about response and we've talked about tier one and the operator's response being the first line of defence on a spill. We've now looked at and reviewed all of this since the BP blowout, and I assume we've made some recommendations to these companies to change their response plans and update their response plans. Obviously, their response plans were applied for when they first applied for drilling offshore. What's the timeline, if any, for the implementation if they end up changing these safety plans and responses?

12:05 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board

Max Ruelokke

Actually, we haven't identified any shortcomings in the plans that have already been submitted. From the point of view of our production operations, we have a three-year cycle of operations authorizations. For example, in the case of the Hibernia field, its operations authorization will be due in late fall of 2011. All those plans will be revised on a three-year basis. There's a response plan for each new well being drilled, but for a production operation, as I say, it's on a three-year rotating basis.

We continually review and assess lessons learned, but we haven't seen any shortfalls or any shortcomings in the response plans. So we haven't asked them to update them. For new exploration wells, as I mentioned earlier, we'll be testing them on subsea containment. That is not something that's been addressed up until now, but it certainly will be addressed going forward.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

Okay.

Another tier of response that you didn't mention is the Canadian Coast Guard. What role would they play in response to an oil spill? In your opinion, is the Canadian Coast Guard well equipped to respond? How well do you think they are prepared to respond? Could there be any improvements? Are there any shortcomings with the coast guard?

12:05 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board

Max Ruelokke

I must confess that I'm not totally up to date on what the coast guard has. For a number of years, just because the gentleman who was running it was a close personal friend of mine, the emergency response supervisor, we would socialize and I would see what they were doing as I visited his office. They certainly have the capability to supplement what the operators do through the Eastern Canada Response Corporation. They have very similar fleets of equipment. One of the things the coast guard has and the Eastern Canada Response Corporation doesn't have, of course, is a stable suite of vessels that they can deploy instantaneously. Within an industry response, the industry would use the supply vessels they currently have and perhaps bring in some others. But those supply vessels are normally equipped to handle just a tier-one response. A tier-two response would require them to come into St. John's and load up equipment from the ECRC and then carry it out.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

Would it be worth our while to speak to the coast guard on their response and how they've improved?

November 2nd, 2010 / 12:05 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board

Max Ruelokke

I'm not absolutely certain, but I believe the coast guard appeared before this committee some time just before or after we appeared here in May.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

That was prior to me being on the committee.

When you talk about ECRC, how quickly can they respond to a spill? Have they done any analysis of their response time and their capabilities since BP?

12:05 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board

Max Ruelokke

Yes, and I think ECRC may have been before the committee as well. I'm not absolutely sure of that.

They have an annual field exercise that the operators conduct, but ECRC is involved in it. That happened in October--the synergy exercise. I know they're involved with Transport Canada, through discussions I've had with Transport Canada, because ECRC has responsibility for ship-based spills other than oil and gas production operations--for example, from tanker traffic. I know that Transport Canada has had a number of discussions with them about supplementing and adding to the equipment they have, and they have a plan in place to do that.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

You talk about oversight and the CNLOPB. You referred to the recent deep-water drill that was done, and observers on board from the CNLOPB. During that period of the deep-water drill, did you have observers on board? In the future, are you looking to have observers on board all production vessels, 24/7, 365 days a year? Can you tell us what you did when the deep well was drilled on--

12:05 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board

Max Ruelokke

We make routine inspections and audits, but we don't have anybody permanently on any of the facilities. We deploy our staff on the basis of a risk analysis, so those areas or activities that we think might be higher risk than others get more interest and more oversight.

If I can refer specifically to the question you asked about what happened on the Stena Carron during the drilling of the Lona-055 well, we had developed a plan of additional oversight and advised Chevron, the operator, that we were going to do that. That meant we had an observer on board at critical phases during the drilling of the well.

Prior to the actual undertaking of those critical activities we had what we call an operations time-out. So we made sure in a formal way, with the operator and the well contractor, Stena, that all the equipment and procedures were in place to deal with whatever happened at the next phase of the well.

It's an exploration well, and the information that comes from it is confidential for two years, but I can tell you that with any exploration well, one of the areas you're going to be interested in from the point of view of safety and environmental protection is when they're entering target areas in the substrata that they believe may contain hydrocarbons.

So before a target is entered we have an operations time-out to make sure they are prepared in every way to deal with what they find in there. If there is a pressure increase, how will they deal with that? Is their equipment capable of doing that? Do their people have the appropriate training and certification? All those things were done on an ongoing basis during the drilling of that well.

We apply that same kind of oversight to any well, especially exploration wells. But we don't have a plan to put anybody on each rig on a 24/7 basis.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you, Mr. Ruelokke.

Thank you, Mr. Andrews.

We now go back to the government side and Mrs. Gallant for up to five minutes.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and witnesses.

Are offshore oil companies required to contribute to a liability or legacy-type fund the way nuclear companies must have a certain amount set aside as insurance for an accident, or a specific dollar amount in an account for legacy issues?

12:10 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board

Max Ruelokke

The oil companies are required to submit to us demonstration of financial capability to deal with anything that might go wrong or occur with the well. In our regime it would be similar to what happened in the Gulf of Mexico. The operator has full responsibility for any costs associated with that.

On the only kind of legacy involvement, in Newfoundland and Labrador we implemented research and development education and training guidelines in 2004 that require the companies to spend a certain percentage of their through-put on research and development education training. That's decided on a kind of a rolling-average basis. That effectively means that the three production operations we have in Newfoundland and Labrador at this time will collectively invest about $30 million on an annual basis in research and development or education and training.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Okay, so if there were a spill, there's not money sitting in a fund somewhere that could be distributed to victims; they would have to go through the legal process of suing.

Now, NORAD is working on a maritime component. Is the critical infrastructure that you regulate—and I would consider a deep-well oil rig, or any oil rig that's functioning, to be critical infrastructure—on NORAD's map? Is there a timeline of communication in case there is a security breach, and a measure that must be taken?

12:10 p.m.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board

Max Ruelokke

I'm not aware of NORAD's overall activities related to offshore facilities, but Transport Canada has a requirement for security of marine assets. It conducts a regular audit of each of the installations to ensure they have appropriate security measures in place, both on the facility itself, as well as on the shore-based facilities they use for support.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Okay.

This past summer there was an inter-agency exercise called Operation Nanook. It was executed in Canada's Arctic. It was mentioned that the eastern oil offshore companies have their own assets but that if something were to happen in the Arctic we would depend upon government sources.

I'm wondering whether your agency was involved at all in planning scenarios. If there was an accident or some emergency on one of these deep oil wells that is being planned for the Arctic--or even a tanker, for that matter--was there something built into that exercise so we would be better prepared in case of an actual emergency?

12:15 p.m.

Chair and Chief Executive Officer, National Energy Board

Gaétan Caron

Mr. Chair, with your permission, Dr. Dixit probably has better first-hand knowledge than I do about the activity you refer to.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Go ahead, Dr. Dixit.

12:15 p.m.

Dr. Bharat Dixit Team Leader, Conservation of Resources, National Energy Board

The question is really around whether our board was participating in some of these northern exercises, and the answer is yes. We were very much a part of the exercise preceding this one. The operation that was conducted was called Narwhal, and we had a hand in defining the scenarios.

In Operation Nanook, we weren't as much in front as we were in shaping what the scenario was, but we were very much involved in the planning and monitoring of that exercise.