Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 10th, 2011

[Bruce Hyer, NDP, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you. I think I will go on to my next question because we are short on time.

I'm the water critic for the NDP. Several of you have commented on a lack of a national strategy on energy, a national strategy on greenhouse gases, a national strategy on climate change. But we also don't have a national water quality standard or strategy. Indeed, our federal government has national standards on just about nothing except seat belts in buses, in cars.

How are we going to move forward? Can we move forward, should we move forward, on developing a national water quality standard so that when we get better science we'll know where we want to go and how we're going to get there?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

And the answer will have to be about 15 seconds. We're over time already.

Go ahead.

[Steven Guilbeault]

Well, we should definitely look at the last few reports of the Auditor General. They showed us how ignorant we are about water and how the federal government has not been doing its homework. While we don't know what's happening, we're allowing all kinds of projects that stand to have dramatic impact on our water resources. We talked about tar sands. We could be talking about shale gas development. I don't understand how we can do this. Obviously, oil and gas are important for the economic development of this country, but without water there's no life. It's as simple as that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Cullen and Mr. Hyer.

Mr. Allen.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think Mr. Stanton has a question. I'll split my time with him.

I guess you don't get much credit for spending infrastructure money on water and waste water and cleaning up water in first nations communities.

Mr. Schmidt, you spoke about the research you're doing with the University of Calgary, about reducing the energy needs and the production costs on a per-barrel basis, and about hydrocarbons and the steam.

Can you tell us a little more about that? What is that process, and have you done any preliminary testing? Have you seen any reductions in energy, and by how much?

[Glen Schmidt]

It's the principle of leaving less oil behind. When people talk about enhanced oil recovery, it's really accessing the oil that's left underground. The fracking technology that's opened up a number of the resources is very much based on using a well to reach out, if you will, to contact and produce more oil.

The addition of light hydrocarbon creates a miscibility with the oil itself. If you had a bit of tar on the side of your car, you might use some Varsol or gasoline to clean it off. Water won't do the job. Propane, ethane, and butane are natural constituents of natural gas. When added to steam, they leave less oil behind and improve the geometry of production so that the recovery factors increase. We have two drivers in the reservoir, like in a hybrid car, where you have a natural gasoline engine in addition to a battery. The light hydrocarbon will reflux or recycle within the reservoir. We can recycle it, and it will reduce steam-oil ratios by up to half.

It's at a commercial stage at Imperial Oil in Cold Lake, which really began in situ development. They have already gone commercial with a project they call LASER. At LASER, the program uses condensate, and they've seen reductions in steam-oil ratios of 25% as well as an increase in recovery by a little better than 40% overall. Their recovery factor went from 25% up to 35%. Probably most important, they've seen an increase in the rate of recovery. If things move more quickly, you waste less energy, and it's a much more efficient process.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

How's that partnership? I see you've put $1 million into the University of Calgary, and you also have employment for your co-op students and summer engineering students. The ConocoPhillips people were in the other day and were talking about this. One of the major challenges they expected to face was going to be the resource issues, and trying to get human resources into these developments.

Are you seeing the same thing? Do you see that a partnership with the University of Calgary would help you address some of that?

[Glen Schmidt]

I think it will be all the universities throughout Canada. Being local to Calgary, we're focused there right now. What we have to do is build as well as expand from experienced staff in other companies that have grown their businesses. Hiring and developing young people is absolutely critical to the growth of the industry.

It's also similar to the development within the community. This past year, we hired two young people, new graduates, within the community of Wabasca, to build out the local operators. Over time, our goal is not to have operators from other communities fly into that region, but to have local employment. It takes time, and we have to grow it.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

You talked about the Wabasca area and your relationship with the Bigstone Cree Nation, the Métis Local 1935. You said you completed your first business development project in 2010, which will be owned locally.

What was that business development? Do you see economic opportunity for your first nations communities as a result of these business developments?

[Glen Schmidt]

Our work with the community is very much like our development as a company. We have to crawl, walk, and then run. As we build our business, what we try to focus on are the local businesses. So we start with the construction businesses that are owned locally. They do the bulk of our work, and they do an excellent job.

A laundry service at camps, where people fly in and do the work for us, becomes a natural business for development in the community. We've supported the business development work so that it could be done locally within Wabasca. What we try to do, working with the community, is identify a niche that's a natural business and then help to support building it.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Chair, I'll turn my time over to Mr. Stanton.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you to our witnesses this afternoon for your presentations.

I just have a quick question for Mr. Thomas-Muller. In your presentation, you talked about some of the damaging effects, both environmentally and healthwise, for the local communities, particularly Fort Chipewyan.

You talked about deformities and the health effects on the fish. You went on to some comments in regard to cancer and so on. I assume they related to the human population, but it was pretty quick.

Could you point us to what sorts of scientific evaluations actually support those kinds of claims? I've done some reading on this in the past, and I've seen that there have been different conclusions drawn. I wonder if you could comment on what the basis of those claims are.

[Clayton Thomas-Muller]

Do you mean specifically around the issue of cancer in human populations?

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

There was cancer. You mentioned deformities.

[Clayton Thomas-Muller]

The deformities and tumours referred specifically to the fish within the Athabasca watershed.

On the topic of cancer within human populations--

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Just before you go on, with respect to the fish, was there a study done that actually drew those conclusions?

[Clayton Thomas-Muller]

If you look at the research of Dr. Schindler and Dr. Timoney, a lot of their research points towards the fact that the fish are stressed by industry contaminants within the Athabasca watershed. There will be further studies emerging on this matter in the very near future.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

What about the cancer and the tumours?

[Clayton Thomas-Muller]

Do you mean in the fish or in the human population?

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I interrupted you before you went on. On the human population, could you...?

[Clayton Thomas-Muller]

The Alberta government recently came out with their own study that proved, in some cases, a sevenfold increase in cancers within populations in Fort Chip. There was a 30% increase right across the board compared to the rest of the population in Alberta.

That said, they gave themselves five years to further follow up on their conclusions.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

That was the Ministry of Health.

[Clayton Thomas-Muller]

That's correct, it was Alberta Health.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Is it recent? I'd be interested in having a look, that's all.

[Clayton Thomas-Muller]

It was in 2009. If you give me your card, I'd be happy to e-mail you all the documentation I'm referring to.