Natural Resources Committee on March 8th, 2011

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Sure.

[Duncan Hawthorne]

And I would hope that those elected officials, faced with that dilemma of one set of information versus another, will have confidence in their regulatory process.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Something this committee is interested in is this. Has Bruce done an economic analysis? Your initial promise to the public in 2006 was to bury these generators on site, not to expose the public to the generators. Have you done an economic analysis of the difference for you as an operator between keeping them all on site versus this plan to ship them to Sweden and then the waste back?

[Duncan Hawthorne]

First, I can tell you that there never was an intention to bury anything on site. They were not being buried on site. Those are special purpose buildings. I can tell you that actually as things stand today, it's more expensive to send them to Sweden.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Can you make that—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Cullen. Your time is up.

[Duncan Hawthorne]

It is more expensive to send—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Can you send that assessment to the committee?

[Duncan Hawthorne]

Yes. We were asked that in the hearings, and you will see that information, and the hearings—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Cullen.

Thank you, Mr. Hawthorne.

Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I have a point of clarification. Nathan said something about needing to invite the folks from Sweden. Mr. Hawthorne said that someone had appeared before the commission, but it wasn't clear who that was.

[Duncan Hawthorne]

It was felt to be important to allay some of the concerns and answer some of the questions about what happens to the metal--what this recycling and treatment look like. So the responsible project manager from Studsvik sat through all of the proceedings and provided a presentation on how they do it. In fact, the presentation on how it's dealt with is in our booklet, and I'll leave that if people like.

If you had read the record of the proceedings and looked at the information the CNSC reviewed, you would find there was a very detailed presentation and questioning of Studsvik.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you for the clarification.

Mr. Lobb, go ahead for up to seven minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I'll split my time with Mr. Anderson.

First of all, I'd like to thank Bruce Power for attending the meeting today. Thank you for the integral part you play in the communities in Bruce, Grey, and Huron counties.

For the viewers at home who are watching in Canada from coast to coast, it's important to note that the councils of Bruce County, Grey County, and Huron County have all supported what you're doing, as has Dr. Lynn, the medical officer of health for Grey and Bruce. They support your initiatives.

I have two questions. I'll let you answer, and then I'll turn it over to Mr. Anderson.

The CNSC was very clear that no precedent is being set here. When we think of nuclear, this is a global community. There are certainly other nations that have endeavoured with this. Domestically, every day there are shipments of goods to and fro throughout the country. So I wonder if you could first speak to that.

Second, I think you make a good point here when you talk about the right thing to do. We know that Bruce Power is involved in the right thing to do, versus the easy thing to do. This is a very good case in point of Bruce Power doing the right thing. It's probably why you're a leader in nuclear around the world.

I wonder if you can respond to those questions.

[Duncan Hawthorne]

Obviously there's a lot of conversation about whether this is a first-of-a-kind thing. To a certain degree, in an attempt to try to simplify a complicated subject and reassure people, we give them examples of things that move around all the time. For example, consider the movement of cobalt, which occurs very regularly. Cobalt-60 is used in the production of isotopes. You asked the question earlier about molybdenum-99 isotopes. But it totally ignores the fact that in our facility today we produce something like 50% of the world's cobalt-60. It is harvested from our plant and moved around. So cobalt-60 moves around the seaways regularly, which from a radioactive point of view is much more significant.

As far as the movement of nuclear materials of a much greater radioactivity content, this is nothing like a precedent. But as was mentioned earlier, this is the first time for Canada that we've had large steam generators moving through the Great Lakes. That's why we're here. That's why I think there is a questioning attitude about what's there.

But it is the right thing to do. We are talking here about a massive volume reduction. We're going to reduce the volume of these components so that instead of filling 60 rooms like this, they will fit into a room half this size. That's the right thing to do. It has been tested and proven.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Shory has one question, so I'll turn it over to him. Then I'll take the rest of the time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Shory, go ahead.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have been listening to this, and a quote came to my mind. I heard CNSC say that hundreds of tonnes of dangerous goods are transported every day. Specifically about these steam generators, they say that 100 tonnes was four grams of radioactive substance. I have heard that from the other parties also.

Is it all fearmongering? If there is any potential risk, what would it be?

[Duncan Hawthorne]

First, as I say, it's very difficult to start talking about radioactive half-lives of components. You can easily mention the word “plutonium” and people immediately take that to a different point. You have to ask how much and in what form.

I think Dr. Thompson answered the question placed by one of the committee members earlier, which was, what is the absolute bounding...what's the worst thing that can happen, whether credible or not?

The most incredible thing is that all 16 steam generators somehow get smashed apart, and remember that these are 100-tonne pressure vessels, massive structures in themselves. We are assuming that they all get smashed to smithereens, and every piece of radioactive inventory that was inside every one of those steam generators gets released into the lake, right outside the water intake for the people of Sarnia. That's an incredible scenario, but let's assume it happens. Even in that scenario, it would only achieve 40% of their maximum allowable limit for safe drinking water. It doesn't even get close. That is such an incredible scenario, I might as well be planning a loss of gravity event. It does not compute. But that's what we did in an effort to reassure people.

[Chair]

Mr. Anderson, go ahead for about three minutes.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think the point you just made reminds us once again how sensitive this is. I guess I was concerned a while ago. I think as members we need to make sure we don't start to exaggerate testimony in order to try to get a news clip.

The CNSC seems to be satisfied that you are able to take the necessary precautions to move these generators. I want you to talk a little bit about the specifics of how you are planning to ensure the road safety of the generators, and then how you are planning to ensure the marine safety of those.

Please take a couple of minutes to talk about that. You have, but I want to hear some details.

[Duncan Hawthorne]

Obviously we have a situation under normal events, and a situation under failure events, if you can call it that. We're required to assess all of that.

Under normal activity, of course, we're working with the local municipalities on the road transport piece. The transport vehicle has to meet road transport standards. Then we're thinking more about the roads we take. We're thinking about whether we cross any bridges and whether they meet the load requirements. We're relying on county engineers and others to give us confidence in that. If we need to do some reinforcement, we do that.

It's not unlike what we did when we brought the new ones to site, because we have already transported 16 new steam generators, in fact 24, because we have some others in store. That deals with the road transport piece.

We also have OPP and local police escorts. This road transport vehicle moves very slowly, as you might imagine. It's five kilometres per hour maximum. It's a very slow moving vehicle. It's supported by police protection, and it travels a route that has been tested and approved by the county officials.

When you get to the boat itself, there are a number of issues as to the qualification of the boat, as to the loading arrangements at the dock, and the qualification of the crane, etc. It deals with storage on ship: how many you can put in, how you put them side by side. They will actually be locked into position there. Nothing else can be on the ship. The hold itself will be sealed so that no one can access during transit. All of the crew have to be qualified. They have to have radiological supervision available to them there. They have to have the necessary qualified people to manage en route. They also have to have an approved emergency plan that covers all of those scenarios that we talked about--if we dropped one into the hold, if the ship gets in distress, all of those things.

All of those elements, both under normal situations and accident guidelines, are all assessed along the complete route.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

Just a very short question.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I'm interested in whether you can tell us a little bit about your emergency response planning and what's required.