Natural Resources Committee on March 10th, 2011

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

So your position is similar to that of the people who came and told us earlier that we absolutely need a nuclear policy.

[Dr. Gordon Edwards]

Precisely.

I have my own personal view of what that policy might look like, but I'm just one individual. I'm not an elected official. My personal view is I would like to see a policy that says there is not permission to transport radioactive waste at all, unless it is for health and environmental reasons and can be proven to be so.

That is not the case with these steam generators. There's no health or environmental reason that justifies their transportation. I don't think we should be moving this stuff around for no reason.

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

It also sets a precedent.

[Dr. Gordon Edwards]

Oui.

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

That's it. Okay.

I have all the answers I need.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Merci, Monsieur Pomerleau.

Mr. Cullen, you have up to five minutes.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thanks, gentlemen, for being here today.

Mr. Shier, I have a question on the unions. I don't have the specific arrangement, but are you similar to a part owner? What's the arrangement between you and Bruce in terms of the ownership of the facility?

[David Shier]

There is an equity interest with the Power Workers' Union as well as the Society of Energy Professionals.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay.

One of the things we tried to understand from Mr. Hawthorne yesterday was whether this was economics at play, because one questions the hassle. Bruce is going through a bunch of hassle now, and it's in the news, and so on. He also said it was very expensive to transport. He gave the impression to this committee and to the press that this was a wash in terms of costs: he said it would cost Bruce the same to keep it on site as it would to transport it and send it across to Sweden, but he wasn't able to provide us with any documents showing that.

As a part owner, as somebody with equity in the project, have you seen any economic analysis saying what it costs to keep it and what it costs to ship it to Sweden and ship it back?

[David Shier]

Personally, I have not seen it. We have people who are involved with that equity arrangement. Whether they have seen it or not, I don't know, but our information is that it is a wash. Cost-wise it's the same to ship it as it is to keep it, but keeping it creates all kinds of other issues as well, so you might as well recycle it.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

If you do come across something, it would helpful for the committee to understand that. Otherwise, essentially we have to take the word of Bruce Power that it's a wash economically.

I have a question for you, Chief Plain--is it Grand Chief Plain, or Chief Plain?

[Chief Christopher Plain]

It's Chief Plain.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

With respect to section 35, I represent the area that is both Haida and Taku, so I'm familiar with the court decision. I was at the Supreme Court that day. This is not a small thing in terms of consultation and accommodation. There is an obligation of the federal government, the crown, to talk to you, and to consult and to accommodate if there's any need for accommodation. That's not an aside; it's embedded in the Constitution. It has also been decided all the way to the Supreme Court.

It seems that the CNSC hasn't consulted with you. It has broken a constitutional agreement and obligation. I'm trying to understand how this can be so lightly dismissed as part of this whole process in law.

[Chief Christopher Plain]

So are we. That's the short answer.

You're absolutely right. That's been our position all along; we've attempted to have the proponents come and provide consultation, but it hasn't been there.

What has transpired to this point—being invited to participate in today's activities, the prior meeting we attended, letter writing, and all that—can't be construed as consultation, and that's what we've been asking for right from the beginning.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Saying that a couple of letters was our consultation is not going to hold up in court. That's not going to survive any test of consultation.

[Chief Christopher Plain]

Absolutely not.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mayor Barfoot, I have a question. You sent us what you read out, which is the resolution from your council, but at the top of the page it says--and this is from you folks: A letter was received from Mr. Lamont from Bruce Power seeking Grey County's support in regard to the transporting of the steam generators to the Owen Sound harbour. A letter of support to Dr. Michael Binder at the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission was sent on behalf of the Municipality of Georgian Bluffs.

It was suggested that a similar letter of support be drafted and sent by the Warden of Grey County with regard to....

I'm just trying to find the origin of this resolution and of these letters that you sent to the CNSC. Bruce Power had written you folks and said that it would be a good idea if they got a resolution from you and also a good idea if some of the other counties in the area sent a letter to CNSC in support. Is that right?

[Alan Barfoot]

That's correct. That's typical with most issues that come through. We get a draft and then we adjust it to the wording we would like. We were comfortable with the wording that was there.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Did you write it, or did Bruce Power write it?

[Alan Barfoot]

I cannot answer that question. I personally did not write it. I'm not sure if our staff had adjusted it or not.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

To you, Dr. Edwards—or is it Mr. Edwards? Excuse me; I don't know if you're a doctor or not.

[Dr. Gordon Edwards]

No, I am not.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Half the people we hear on this issue are doctors, and you can offend them easily.

[Dr. Gordon Edwards]

I'm not a real doctor.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Fair enough.