Evidence of meeting #6 for Natural Resources in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was repair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
As an Individual
I think the intent was always that it would be “all research”, but as to what forms of research, it would be materials testing.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Alan Tonks
We have about seven minutes. May I suggest that because we started a little late we finish with a two- or three-minute round, or whatever we can squeeze in? Let's say two and a half minutes.
We'll have Mr. Bains, Mr. Allen, and someone from the Bloc.
March 30th, 2010 / 9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON
Thank you very much, Chair.
Mr. Goodhand, you mentioned that we need to start soon and not at the end of the next 12 months. However, when the minister was here two weeks ago he was quite blunt about the fact that there's no new money in Budget 2010 to lay the groundwork for replacement of the NRU.
Are you surprised by this? What are your thoughts on it? You've been very adamant about the fact that sooner is better than later, but obviously the minister's comments are contradicting that.
9:50 a.m.
As an Individual
I can't speak to the minister's comments.
If it's a question of money to lay the groundwork and how you could interpret that, what we were looking for is the decision to start. We would not suggest that anybody make this kind of multi-million dollar decision without very strong business cases, probably including EOIs and RFPs. I'm not sure how much money is required to lay the groundwork, but if the decision is made, I would have thought that significant work could be started without a major budget impact.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON
Mr. Littlejohn, the issue here as we understand it is about the stable supply of isotopes in the short and the long term being critical for our patients. I would like further clarity on this comment—I know it has been asked, but I would like clarity on it.
How does Canada get its fair share? Is it based on price point, customer needs...? With the limited supply that we are dealing with, how does Canada compare with other jurisdictions?
9:50 a.m.
Vice-President, Communications, Pharmaceuticals Division, Covidien
I'll ask my colleague to answer that one.
9:50 a.m.
Director, Sales and Marketing, Pharmaceuticals Division, Tyco Healthcare Group Canada, Covidien
The way it's based, all over the world, is that we have customers who have contracts. The supply is allocated first to ensure that we meet our contractual agreement in each country—the U.S., Canada, everywhere. On days when there is more supply produced than we have demand from our base of customers, we will allocate the additional supply based on the market demand.
As an example, from June up until the recent repair of the HFR, within Covidien we would disproportionately allocate more supplies, for the size of the market, in Canada and to some countries in Asia, because they were more affected by the impact of the NRU shutdown.
So it's not based on selling price or cost; it's really based on the market demand and first and foremost on contractual agreements with customers that we have. That's the base of the....
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you, Chair.
In keeping with some of the comments made about a stable market for the next 10 to 15 years for the tech supply, one of the things I noted in your notes, and you spoke about it, was your long-term “game-changing partnership with Babcock & Wilcox” and your collaboration with them. Can you tell me what the timeline is, as part of this game-changing partnership, for the development of that technology, and what the quantity of tech is that you would see coming from that game-changing partnership?
9:55 a.m.
Vice-President, Communications, Pharmaceuticals Division, Covidien
First, it's game-changing because of the technology; second, it integrates the irradiation with the processing; third, it's specifically dedicated to molybdenum, so you don't need to think about the broader research piece. In terms of timing, we're looking at mid- to late 2014, and work is very intense and vigorous on it as we speak.
9:55 a.m.
Vice-President, Communications, Pharmaceuticals Division, Covidien
Oh, and our agreement is to enable us to meet about 50% of U.S. demand. I can't give you the exact quantities and capacities, but it's my understanding that this will not take up all of what the reactor can produce.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
In terms of your contracts, what possibility do you see in the Missouri university research reactor that you're also looking at? What potential would that unit have for fulfilling portions of your contract?
9:55 a.m.
Vice-President, Communications, Pharmaceuticals Division, Covidien
It would have a similar production level. In other words, it's not minimal; we anticipate that it would be substantial. We don't have an agreement or contract with them yet—they're not at that stage—but as you can imagine, they're just an hour-and-a-half drive down the road from our Maryland Heights facility, so distance makes it a very attractive piece.
The folks there are working on their timeline. Because we don't have an agreement with them, we really can't speak for them in terms of timelines, but I'm sure that if you wanted to give them a call, they'd be delighted to chat with you. I can give you the name of the contact afterwards, if you like.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
9:55 a.m.
Bloc
Claude Guimond Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is for Mr. Goodhand.
Since 9 this morning, we have heard about techniques, technology, markets, and so on, but I would like to know how the situation has changed for the people who need these products. We feel there is great urgency, but I would like to understand more about the needs.
9:55 a.m.
As an Individual
I'll qualify it by saying I'm not the best person to answer that. The people who are closest to it and in day-to-day contact with patients will be best able to inform you. They include a combination of nuclear medicine specialists and those in other associated specialties, like cardiology. So a cardiologist or a group of cardiologists is well equipped to tell you the impact on their patients of being offered alternatives. There might be no change in the schedule, but they may receive a different product that might give a different thing. But a cardiologist would be best.
Oncologists and the cancer community are well equipped to tell you the impact it has on cancer patients. I checked with colleagues across the country within the Canadian Cancer Society and the cancer agencies. The many steps that have been taken by all people in the supply chain, including the front-line specialists, are minimizing the impact on patients to this point. Some rescheduling is going on, particularly last week. There appear to be a minimum number of cancellations. It is troubling and disturbing for any patient who thinks they're coming for a procedure at this time to have it rescheduled and pushed back. But the information I'm getting through the cancer community is that the steps everybody else is taking are, to the largest extent possible, protecting patients' interests at this point.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Alan Tonks
Merci, Monsieur Guimond.
We have reached a point where we thank the witnesses for being here. We have another second phase that we're going into.
Mr. Littlejohn, on the EU document you have referred to, Mr. Harris was just raising whether a graphic flow chart would be part of that, or whether it would be part of the research documents that are behind the paper. I wonder if I can leave it with our researcher to discuss that with you and see if we can have complete documentation on the graphic as part of that.
Thank you very much for being here. We appreciated your presence and your testimony.
We'll take a few minutes to change to the next panel. Then we'll commence with the hearing.
Thank you.
10 a.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Alan Tonks
We will recommence our meeting now.
On behalf of the committee I'm pleased to welcome Mr. Hugh MacDiarmid, president and chief executive officer from Atomic Energy of Canada Limited, and Mr. William Pilkington, the senior vice-president and chief nuclear officer. Welcome to both of you again.
On the lighter side, from our colleagues' perspective you've been here so many times that we think you're perhaps part of the committee.
10 a.m.
Hugh MacDiarmid President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
Old friends.
10 a.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Alan Tonks
I'm not sure we could take that much knowledge, but in any case we appreciate you being here.
You know the routine, so without any further ado we will go to Mr. MacDiarmid to hear his statement, and to Mr. Pilkington if he wishes to add anything. Then we will have our usual round of questioning.
Mr. MacDiarmid.
10 a.m.
Hugh MacDiarmid President and Chief Executive Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to introduce Mr. Bill Pilkington, the chief nuclear officer at AECL.
My colleague Bill Pilkington and I appreciate the opportunity to be here.
We will also be very pleased to welcome you to our Chalk River facility on April 13.
We very much look forward to hosting you.
I would like to provide members of the committee with a brief update on our most urgent priority at AECL: the safe repair and return to service of the NRU. Bill will then provide more technical detail on the next phase of the repair sequences.
As you know, intense repair operations continue around the clock, involving over 300 highly qualified AECL staff and industry partners.
There are 300 of us working around the clock on the repairs.
As of today, the weld repair portion of the outage is 60% complete.
The process has been very painstaking. Our progress has been impeded by the need to overcome technical problems, to inspect, analyze, and understand irradiated metal behavior, and to measure and evaluate stress on the vessel structure. What we are doing has never been done in the history of the nuclear industry. It is probably the most complex, precise, and sophisticated welding operation ever undertaken in a radioactive environment.
The challenges have been daunting, but weld by weld we are getting to our goal of safely repairing the NRU and restarting it. We have successfully completed eight of ten weld repair sites, representing more than half of the repair work. When you do visit Chalk River you will see the nature of the challenges and the solutions our people have devised to meet them.
We have invented and are using many innovative remote tools. These complex tools, equipped with vision systems, have to be compact enough to pass through a very small opening at the top of the reactor, about the size of a baseball that could fit through. They are then fed nine metres down into the large reactor vessel, where they unfold and align with the vessel wall. Welding is controlled by operators with TV screens and joysticks, three storeys above the repaired site.
Through excellent teamwork between our employees and suppliers, and with the best advice from the world's most eminent welding and technical authorities, we are getting the job done.
The two remaining areas of corrosion, the ones presenting the biggest challenges, are now being tackled. The relatively large size of the two remaining repair sites makes them by far the most difficult and complex. For each of these repairs, four distinct phases of work must be completed in sequence, all adding time to the job but absolutely necessary.
In light of this complexity and the accumulated experience from the repair work completed to date, it became evident to us that the schedule needed to be revisited.
AECL, with the advice of industry experts in welding technology and performing outages, has conducted a review of the work schedule. The result is that we now estimate NRU will resume isotope production by the end of July. This new schedule has built in prudent contingency, reflecting the difficulty inherent in these final repairs.
Repairs are expected to be complete for the first of the remaining sites later today. For the final repair site, the first of four incremental phases—weld development—is under way. Regular progress updates will continue to be provided based on the revised schedule.
Mr. Chairman, all of us at AECL feel the pressure every day to get the repairs completed as soon as possible so that medical isotopes from NRU can be used to help patients all over the world. Having said that, we absolutely must get these highly delicate repairs done right. There is no margin for error. We have but one chance to develop and execute the correct repair strategy for each unique repair site in the reactor; otherwise we risk damaging the vessel wall and extending the repair.
Bill will discuss the repair operation in more detail in a moment. He will also outline in more detail the reasons for the revision of our estimated return to service. The extension to the repair schedule is indeed regrettable. We are deeply aware of its implications on isotope supplies for patients.
So let me reiterate. AECL is making every effort to return the NRU to service as quickly and as safely as possible. More resources are being applied to the project, including additional aluminum welding specialists and other technical expertise.
Mr. Chairman, I would now like to turn things over to Bill Pilkington to continue our opening remarks.
10:05 a.m.
William Pilkington Senior Vice-President and Chief Nuclear Officer, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As Hugh MacDiarmid just stated, the NRU repair and return to service is making steady progress in addressing the remaining unique repairs. Now we would like to take this opportunity to provide additional detail on the repairs and highlight how our outage team is successfully managing the repair process.
The final sequence of repairs is the most challenging. The repair areas are the largest, increasing the complexity of achieving a lasting repair while managing the stresses on the vessel. Each of these repair sites requires a unique strategy in repair design. The repair team is now employing a combination of welded plates, vertical and horizontal structural welds for plate attachment, and finally, both vertical and horizontal weld buildup.
We now have completed the repair design for the remaining sites. With this information and the experience gained in the last sequence of repairs, we have revised our outage schedule, which has resulted in the extension announced recently.
To confirm our revised plan we assembled an expert advisory panel earlier this month for a workshop to examine our repair strategy. The group includes Canadian and international experts in specialized welding solutions, reactor technology, and outage management. The panel confirmed that AECL is using the correct repair techniques, that the NRU is indeed repairable, and that our revised schedule is realistic. The panel also agrees that AECL is appropriately balancing the competing priorities of a lasting repair, minimizing the risk of damage to the reactor vessel, and minimizing the outage duration.
The process of preparing to complete the final and largest repair involves four phases, which must be carried out in sequence. These phases are weld development, welder qualification and reliability testing, integration testing, and finally, the repair of the vessel.
Weld development is the longest and most difficult phase to plan and schedule, since a number of weld trials and engineering analyses must be completed to arrive at the optimum solution. For the final repair site this process began in January, and steady progress has been made to date.
Next, the weld machines must be programmed, specific weld procedures must be developed, and the welders qualified to complete them. The repair sequence must be refined to allow the welders to train on the techniques to the point that a quality weld can be made repeatedly. This process is referred to as qualification and reliability testing.
After successful completion of the welder qualification and reliability testing, we proceed to integration testing. This is a full rehearsal of the repair from start to finish. All of the remote tooling to prepare the vessel for welding and to complete the repairs is used in the full height mock-up to confirm that the teams, and the execution of each of the procedures, fit together to deliver the required result. The reason we spend so much time on the rehearsal phase is because once we're in the vessel we need to get it right the first time.
Finally, when all of these phases have been completed flawlessly, the repair team is ready to go to the reactor vessel. The preparation is extensive and time-consuming, but the results speak for themselves. To date every repair site has passed all required non-destructive examination. To minimize the time required on the outage-critical path, we continue to work on a 24-hour-day, seven-day-a-week basis without interruption. Returning the NRU to safe and reliable operation to support medical isotope production remains the focus of the outage team and AECL's primary objective.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
With your permission, I would like to show some samples of the repair welding. I think they would help to understand the complexity of this job.