Natural Resources Committee on June 7th, 2012

[Peter Jenkins]

If you look at the end result of that money, you will find that in some cases it's for investment opportunity and for the return on the investment. With respect to a lot of this foundation money that is flowing into Canada, it's to create a park, from Yellowstone National Park to Yukon.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Right. I know all about the Yellowstone to Yukon conservation initiative, and it's all about trying to maintain Canada's stable population of predatory species, particularly the grizzly bear. We know the park system in Canada is not working. We know that if parks aren't connected and buffered, they don't work. We've known for almost 50 years that if we don't buffer and connect our parks, they become islands of extinction. We have some dramatic cases in the United States where parks that were set aside as parks now have species of flora and fauna that were never indigenous to those parks because they have completely changed.

Who are the members of the Yukon Conservation Society? Are they Canadians?

[Peter Jenkins]

By and large, yes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

The Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society, are they Canadians?

[Peter Jenkins]

Yes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

The David Suzuki Foundation, are they Canadians?

[Peter Jenkins]

Yes. In fact, David Suzuki's son is a resident of our community.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Right. I am having a hard time trying to distinguish here what constitutes funnelling money and not funnelling money. I can't follow the logic.

I'm going to go back and try again. You are suggesting that if money comes into Canada for good economic purposes, say to capitalize a major mining project in the Yukon, that's great. It's good. It's acceptable as part of our international free trade agreements, as part of our capital flows, and as part of the free market. But if money comes from outside donors to help save the grizzly bear as a predatory species, that's not good.

[Peter Jenkins]

If you want to look at the Yukon for grizzly bears, our population of grizzly bears is one of the highest it's ever been. Our caribou herds have rebounded tremendously. There's a restriction on hunting by all Canadians, first nations and everything.

We probably have just a fundamental disagreement on how many parks we need. Currently, the Yukon protects almost 13% of our land base.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I hear you. You and I are now in violent agreement. There is definitely a disagreement about how many parks we need.

But I am very concerned about the talk that is coming from the government and from select witnesses who are coming to the committee trying to claim, or frankly make the spurious allegation, that money coming into Canadian conservation groups is somehow sullied, dirty, or inappropriate money. We had a witness come here and suggest it was illegal money. Not you, sir. I think that's very dangerous. I am very disappointed in the government's conduct in this regard. We have had ministers call groups who are very concerned about Canada's conservation standards and levels “radicals”. We have had a cabinet minister stand up and allege they are funnelling and money laundering—money laundering money. Of course, when he is asked to actually provide names outside the immunity of the House of Commons, he doesn't have the guts to do it.

I am very concerned when we hear this kind of talk. I think Yukoners would want to see a good balance here. I just can't see why Yukoners don't want to see an appropriate role by both the private and of course the government sector, the regulatory sector, and of course from NGOs. I don't understand why there is such an animosity here for the appropriate role of an actor in civil society. I don't get that.

[Peter Jenkins]

I believe the Yukon currently has a very good balance for the amount of area set aside for parks. I believe we have an extremely good conservation program with respect to our wild game. I believe we have achieved that balance.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Do your companies and Yukoners now realize that when the government goes out and spends hundreds of thousands of dollars jetting ministers around the country to tell Canadians that there's now a new two-year timeline for environmental assessments...? Do Yukoners now realize that's actually quite misleading, and that if a project proponent says they need to year to do the science or the analysis, or get the water quality studies done, the entire things stops?

[Peter Jenkins]

If you want to look at the number of projects that are under way just in close proximity to my community, there are a lot of the major mining companies. We've experienced a new gold rush. Probably the biggest and most renowned is Kinross. They're out there now doing their due diligence. They haven't made any application, but they were in there over the course of the whole winter pulling water samples, doing land use studies, and addressing all of the responsibilities they have under the YESAA regulatory regime.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

They also have—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. McGuinty. Your time is up.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We'll go now to Mr. Anderson for up to five minutes.

Go ahead, please, sir.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Jenkins, I don't think you need to go any further than Mr. McGuinty's line of questioning to know why you should be concerned. When you're talking about things like buffering parts from one end and connecting the parts that are already in place, I think those of us who live in rural areas understand what's being suggested there, which is that our areas do get made into huge parks that people basically cannot use, and development cannot take place.

Actually, years ago, I had a member of Parliament and his party telling me that he was excited and he said they could hardly wait until western Canada was one big park.... Now, he was semi-exaggerating—

[A voice]

Why not the whole country?

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

—but I think we've just heard more of that this morning. When you talk about foreign money coming in through groups specifically set up to advocate, and comparing that to investment in our economy...I think you can see where Mr. McGuinty and the Liberal Party are coming from. You should be concerned, and I don't think we've ever seen it as clearly as we just did in the last few minutes. Anyway, I'm glad he pursued that line of questioning, to make you a little bit more aware of what you need to be looking for.

I would like to actually go back to the issue of education and training, because we've had quite a long series of hearings here at the committee and we've gone to a number of rural areas. We talked about the Ring of Fire in northern Ontario, and Plan Nord as well, and some of the challenges that are faced by communities. We've had leaders come in here who basically have said that they are not really interested in their communities changing, that they'd like to leave them as is, but also with the consequences of probably not having some of those advancements made in their communities either.

I'm just wondering if you can tell me.... You said you had 95% employment, or that everyone who wants a job in Baker Lake basically can have one. How have you worked with your young people—I know you still have issues and challenges there—to get them focused on education to the point that they are employable and are moving up the work chain?

I'd like to ask both of you that question, because I find it exciting to hear about that happening in your communities and I'd just like to know what your experience is. How have you kept young people in the school system as much as you have? How are you training them? And at what stage are you starting with them to get them into the workforce?

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Go ahead, Mayor Kusugak.

[Pujjuut Kusugak]

Thank you for the question.

In our community, there have been a few—what are they called again?—career fairs, and there have also been trade shows that have gone on in our region. They've been extremely successful in the last couple of years. That has involved a lot of youth, making sure they're part of what's going on.

There has been a lot of effort. There have been presentations, and also, in a way, job experiences, not just in the mine, necessarily, but in summer programs where students are learning about water analysis, surveying, and things of that sort. Also, Agnico-Eagle Mines recently had an agreement with the Government of Nunavut Department of Education to work on education programs so that youth are able to look into careers, I guess, in the mining sector.

But I think it's important to note that once you have this kind of training, you can take your trade or position anywhere, not just within Canada but anywhere in the world, and those are the kinds of things we're trying to expose youth to. I'm actually a teacher by trade, so I have a few years of experience in high school.

The youth are ambitious. It's the opportunities that are needed and also the ways of learning how to live away from home. I left high school. At 16 years of age I left Rankin to go to school in Toronto, at St. Michael's College School. After that, I moved to Ottawa for three years. I was lucky to have experience in leaving home.

These kinds of programs are what's needed by many youth.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Can I say that it's important to your community that you've actually returned to it as well? I come from a community of 300 people, and I hear some of the same issues—health care, staff retention, municipal levels, those kinds of things, but particularly keeping our young people interested in coming back to the community. You're an example of someone who has come back.

Both of you are there, leading your communities. I think that's part of the success.

I'm just wondering, as the economy improves—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Sorry, Mr. Anderson, your time is up. You'll get another chance.

Mr. Daniel.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here.

We've really focused very much on the mining industry and the development of mines, etc. What other natural resources—forestry, for example—can play a part in your community in terms of the spread of activities that you can do?

That's to all of you.