Evidence of meeting #66 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was innovation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Laurin Liu NDP Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to thank the witnesses for being here.
My first questions are for Mr. Howard.
Your presentation focused a lot on the obligation to export oil from the oil sands so it can leave Alberta. You also think developing pipelines to the United States and eastern Canada is a priority.
Have you looked at possibilities other than exportation, such as the possibility of developing these resources here, in Canada?
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Research Institute
The simple answer is no, we haven't analyzed that at all, but currently our focus is more on what the implication is to Canada if the U.S. becomes self-sufficient in oil. In other words, how much of our oil sands and our conventional oil would get backed out of that market?
With that process of becoming partially or fully sustainable in oil production, or whatever they get to, there's an implication as to the differential to Canada. In other words, if we don't build new pipes, and our pipes are jammed full and there's no more capacity left, the differential will stay open. The move towards upgrading to refined petroleum products—the door opens, and that might be the only way to get our resources out of North America: basically sending diesel and gas to the coast and onto ships to foreign markets.
Let me just add that we are looking at the possibility, along with others, of converting one of TransCanada's mainline pipes over to oil so that we can connect western crude to our eastern refineries.
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Energy Research Institute
Yes, the pipeline to Irving.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Laurin Liu NDP Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
If you ever study resource development—we know that job creation is a priority for Canadians—this committee will be most interested in receiving your study. Thank you.
I also have questions for Mr. Heintzman, from Bullfrog Power.
You mentioned biogas. Where are your main suppliers located?
4:50 p.m.
Co-founder and Director, Bullfrog Power
It's just outside of Montreal. The next two projects were built in British Columbia, and we're starting to look at projects in Ontario and elsewhere across the country.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
4:50 p.m.
Co-founder and Director, Bullfrog Power
We work with this one facility, EBI, in Quebec, in the green natural gas. In terms of renewable electricity, we've worked with a number of suppliers in the past, including Brookfield. I'm trying to think whether there are any.... Anyway, those would be the principal players.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Laurin Liu NDP Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Your publications indicate that your hydroelectricity is greener than Hydro-Québec's.
Can you tell us more about that?
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Laurin Liu NDP Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
I found in your publications that the hydroelectricity you produce is greener than that of Hydro-Québec. Could you explain?
4:50 p.m.
Co-founder and Director, Bullfrog Power
I think what you're referring to is that there's an EcoLogo certification, which is a federal government certification done through the EcoLogo program. EcoLogo typically certifies small hydro but not large hydro. I think that's what you're referring to.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Laurin Liu NDP Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Last week, one witness told us about smart grids.
Could you tell us about the impact this technology might have on your sector?
4:50 p.m.
Co-founder and Director, Bullfrog Power
My personal belief is that smart grids will revolutionize electricity in our society, and to some extent heat as well. They will incorporate intelligence end to end, from generation all the way through to consumption, and will provide greater efficiency, greater effectiveness of the system, cheaper supply, and a more reliable supply. It's a revolution being applied to energy similar to the revolution that the web has brought us in telecommunications.
My only concern, which relates to some of the issues that I raised in my presentation, is whether our systems, be they the division of powers and regulatory and economic consensus, will allow Canada to be a leader in the smart grid or not.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, Ms. Liu.
Mr. Leef, you have up to five minutes. Go ahead, please.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
Thank you very much, gentlemen.
Mr. Calkins and Mr. Trost talked a little about the hydraulic fracturing and the testing that is done before it comes out. Then Mr. Nicholls was talking a little bit about tracing and maybe clearing up some of the misinformation about it. That's the one thing I hear in the Yukon. We've explored LNG projects in the Yukon, and fracturing particularly up in the Eagle Plains country.
Generally, the public is weighing in, but when you really corner people on the specific issues and the facts, you hear examples they raise about wells being poisoned and things. But they just don't understand the issue generally—don't understand the science behind it, the lack of science behind it, the fact from fiction in terms of the truth behind the stories that tend to be out there.
This sways government, political, and public opinion on how these projects move forward. I think you articulated clearly what not moving ahead with some of these projects can do to stagnate the GDP growth of a region and our country.
Maybe I'll just give you an opportunity to go on the record a little more to provide the committee and Canadians listening with some additional information on the science of fracturing and the realities behind some of the stories that tend to make the headlines, in contrast with the good news or the success stories that you may be aware of.
4:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Division, Regulatory and Government Relations, Encana Corporation
Thank you.
As mentioned, we put an awful lot of time and effort into the hydraulic fracturing principles and operating practices, the principles being that the industry across Canada.... I think this is quite commendable for industry. I haven't seen another oil and gas industry worldwide that is committed to these principles and practices for protecting the quality and quantity of groundwater.
The practices are exactly the right practices to do the right things. Whether it's disclosure, whether it's baseline groundwater monitoring, whether it's monitoring seismicity, for example, these are all cutting-edge practices, which Canadians should all be proud of. It's from a responsible development perspective.
But you were asking the question.... Clearly I believe that what we do is done responsibly and in the right manner, but the need for energy literacy is paramount in Canada—to have the dialogue both ways, but to increase the energy literacy of Canadians is, I think for all areas, important.
To that end, there are a number of organizations, such as CAPP and the Canadian Society for Unconventional Resources. But what we've joined in recently and are just testing is this. Pollution Probe is working on a sort of industry.... At this point I don't believe government is involved, but Pollution Probe, being the NGO, is working at a project that is aimed at increasing Canadian energy literacy. I think this is an area that offers an awful lot of opportunity for increasing the level of comfort.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
I'm glad you brought it back to that. We are talking about innovation, and I think maybe you just touched on it. Some of the aspects of innovation belong in the education and literacy format.
Are other companies invested in that project to create greater literacy in the energy field?
5 p.m.
Vice-President, Canadian Division, Regulatory and Government Relations, Encana Corporation
Definitely. It's just kicking off, but I've seen other companies in the oil and gas sphere; Suncor and Canadian Natural Resources come to mind.
It comes back to one of the points I was trying to bring forward in my remarks: that by and large, in dealing with issues around social licence and providing a level of assurance for the stakeholders and for the public, industry does an extremely good job of collaboration.
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
Mr. Heintzman, you talked about being in B.C. and then going east from there. Do you see any application in northern climates, and if so, are you turning your mind to that?
5 p.m.
Co-founder and Director, Bullfrog Power
Absolutely. In fact, we're one of the sponsors of the next remote renewable power conference. It's being held in Canada in partnership with the Pembina Institute, which is an Alberta-based energy think tank. It's going to be taking place in June. The entire focus will be on northern communities, off-grid communities, and the development of renewable power in those communities. I absolutely believe there's an opportunity there and that a similar business model can work, whereby individuals could choose to pay a premium and that premium could be used to help develop those types of projects.