Natural Resources Committee on April 16th, 2013

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

These projects are basically pilot projects. In other words, there's a high degree of comfort in the technology, but we want to make sure they can produce at a commercial level to provide sufficient amounts.

We believe they will, and that Canada will be in a position, therefore, to supply a good portion. This means there could be some imports as well. We signalled that by 2016 we will not be in a position, and we're certainly not making a commitment, to supply medical isotopes to the rest of the world.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

So our emphasis will be—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Trost. Your time is up.

Mr. Calkins, you have up to five minutes, please.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

Minister, as an extension of some of the pipeline questions that my colleague Mr. Allen was asking, as an Alberta MP I do have some concerns, obviously, with some of the discussion that has gone on, with some of the misinformation campaigns that have been used to try to stop the Northern Gateway pipeline. At the end of the pipeline, though, Minister, if we're going to diversify the energy sector for the Canadian economy and for the Alberta economy, which is good for the entire nation, we need to be able to get the international market price. We're not going to do that without tankers, because the pipeline can only get us to the edge of the sea.

About a month ago, Minister, you made an announcement on the government's initiatives insofar as tanker safety is concerned. I'm wondering if you could let us know what's involved, and at a detailed level if possible, with regard to the government's intentions on that and what the relevance might be as far as spending plans and priorities go.

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

This is a very important initiative. Our country depends on the safe shipment of goods overseas. I am pleased that our current safety system has served Canada well for many decades, however, it's essential that we're able to meet the needs of the future as well. For that reason the government recently announced, as you implied, a world-class tanker safety system. This three-part plan includes new measures, legislation, and the creation of an expert panel.

Building on the previous budget our government recently tabled the Safeguarding Canada's Seas and Skies Act, which is amending the Canada Shipping Act, 2001. The proposed amendments will strengthen the current requirements for pollution prevention and response at oil handling facilities, and increase Transport Canada's oversight and enforcement capacity by equipping marine safety inspectors with tools to enforce compliance. It will introduce new offences in contraventions of the act, and extend penalties relating to pollution. It will enhance the response to oil spills incidents by removing legal barriers that can otherwise block agents of Canadian response organizations from participating in cleanup operations.

The government also announced the creation of a tanker safety expert panel to review Canada's current marine response spill system and proposed further measures to strengthen it.

I'll go through the final things very quickly. There are eight new measures to strengthen the tanker safety system. They include increasing the number of inspections to make sure all foreign tankers are inspected on their first visit, annually thereafter; systematic surveillance by the aerial surveillance program; establishing the Canadian Coast Guard incident command system; reviewing existing pilotage and tug export requirements; designating more ports for traffic control measures, starting with Kitimat; and conducting scientific research on non-conventional products such as diluted bitumen to understand how the substances behave. The Canadian Coast Guard will ensure an improved system of aids to navigation. Last, the coast guard will develop options for enhancing Canada's navigation system. These measures will ensure that Canada has a world-class tanker safety system.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thanks, Minister.

Could you elaborate a little more on this expert panel, when it's going to be composed, what it's going to look like, and what it's going to be responsible for, and enlighten this committee as to what we can expect from that panel?

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

The tanker safety expert panel will review the current marine oil spill response system and propose further measures to strengthen it. With all the measures I've introduced, it is critically important that to have a world-class regime we look at the best standards in the world. That will include everything related to this area to make sure we have adequate capacity in the areas of jurisdiction. There has not been a major tanker spill off the west coast, period. However, in the very unlikely event that might happen, we have to have a very robust system to make sure the response is immediate and comprehensive and is based on polluter pay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you very much, Mr. Calkins, your time is up.

We go next to Mr. Nicholls, followed by Mr. Harris, and then Monsieur Gravelle.

Mr. Nicholls, you have up to five minutes.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I'd like to address the NEB's dealings with the Line 9 reversal project. I know you were in Montreal on Friday.

On the 25th and 27th of October, 2011, NEB inspectors inspected pumping stations on the line. From what they found in 2011, currently the Westover and Terrebonne pump stations are non-compliant. Both stations' emergency shutdown systems are non-compliant. In May 2012 Enbridge made an assurance of voluntary compliance to come into compliance. It was supposed to do a corrective action plan by October 2012. Enbridge asked for an extension. It was given until April 15 of this year to come up with a corrective action plan.

Right now we have two major pumping stations that are not compliant. They don't have the emergency shutdown systems they are supposed to. Of the 125 pump stations, 117 are currently non-compliant. This has been the case since 2011. Has Enbridge submitted its corrective action plan for this non-compliance?

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, it might be interesting for another day, but his question has nothing to do with the estimates at all. If he can frame it—

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

It does have something to do with the estimates. Another member—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Order, please. Allow the member to make his point of order.

When the chair is speaking to that, I'd appreciate it, too, if members would allow me as chair to say what I want to say without being interrupted.

Go ahead, Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

My point is that if he frames it in terms of the estimates that we're here to discuss today, I'm sure the minister can handle that. The member is asking specifics about something that is far removed from the subject that we're talking about today.

I would just encourage him to get back on the topic that we're here for.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Yes.

As you know, when we do have a minister before committee, it is tradition that wide-ranging questions are allowed, but members should know that the minister can't come prepared for absolutely every issue in detail. If you stick to the main estimates, you're more likely to get a detailed answer.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, the minister referenced Line 9 in his initial notes, and he also referenced the issue around pipeline safety, so these are very clearly tied into the main estimates that we're discussing today.

I'm not sure what Mr. Anderson's point was, but very clearly there is a link. The minister addressed that in his opening remarks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

I think Mr. Anderson's point was that if you stick to the main estimates, the minister certainly will be prepared to give detailed answers. If you go off onto issues that aren't directly related, you're not going to find as detailed an answer ready.

Go ahead, Mr. Nicholls. As I've indicated, we allow wide-ranging questions when the minister is here. Go ahead, please.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I believe pipeline safety, Line 9, and the strength of the National Energy Board were addressed. Therefore, I see it as relevant to the estimates, and I ask the question again, has Enbridge submitted this corrective action plan that's been expected for two years now?

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Look, the problem with the question is that it's not within my field of responsibility. This is something to ask—

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Pipeline safety is not within your responsibility, Minister?

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

No, no, just a moment.

We're talking about what is under the jurisdiction of the independent regulator, and this is under the regulator's jurisdiction. We do not interfere with their responsibilities. We can find out whether they have submitted a plan or not, but that's a question that is more properly addressed to the National Energy Board itself.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Well, is the government concerned that for over two years Enbridge has been in violation of the Canadian Standards Association's Z662-11, which regulates pipeline safety in this country?

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

We're very comfortable with the competence and integrity, and dedication and independence of the National Energy Board.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Do you commit today, here in committee, to make this corrective action plan, once it's submitted by Enbridge, public?

[Joe Oliver, Conservative, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

That is up to the National Energy Board.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Well, I find it rich, Minister, due to changes in legislation in the omnibus budget bills last year...that actually the independence of the National Energy Board was called into question. I believe decisions can now be overruled by cabinet, decisions taken by the National Energy Board. So this doublespeak of saying it's arm's length, it's independent, and yet cabinet can overrule it, I find that very rich.

I know that the government is committed to a two-year timeline for project reviews—