Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 26th, 2015

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Actually, I'm glad that both of you, and also Mr. Irving, talked about training.

Earlier we heard from a witness from British Columbia who spoke of the success of his organization and of having a pilot project for aboriginal youth. The project was funded by the province and a private industry partner. The provincial government provides the funds for the education, while the private partner provides summer jobs and mentoring for students. The modules of this program covered everything from forest technician to skilled trades training for the forestry sector, to forestry management and forestry business, that sort of thing.

Would this sort of program be welcomed by first nations in New Brunswick? Can you envision the federal government playing an active role in such an initiative?

Perhaps Mr. Irving might want to comment on this, too.

[Cecelia Brooks]

Yes, I think that what Mr. deMarsh is talking about needs to be considered as being foremost.

We had a program, the first nations forestry program, where there were subsidies paid to hire first nations, and there was training. The sad part was that, once the subsidies were taken away, the jobs weren't there. The last individual who was working on that said there was one individual who still had a job, and I think he was driving a truck.

It's a cultural shift that we need to see. We need to have education, and not on just one end, where we're educating first nations in the various fields. We need to have a cultural awareness with the industry, as well.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

This isn't a dating site, but Mr. Irving, I wonder if you'd like to comment on this.

The B.C. example had a private industry partner. Is this the sort of thing—you were talking about shortages—the sort of programming you or other private partners might be interested in?

[James D. Irving]

Yes. I don't know what has gone on in B.C.

Anybody who wants to work and is dedicated to it...how do we facilitate that? We're spending our own money to train people. If the aboriginal community has folks who want to go at it, get on board, come with us, and work at this. We're wide open in that regard.

We do job fairs. I don't know where we are today, but I know we've posted online with the aboriginal community about our jobs, and so on and so forth. We're running a very competitive business. We need folks who say, “Yes, I'm willing to commit and I want to get on board.” That's great, and away we go.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I probably have only one more question left. It's about the softwood lumber agreement.

We've heard differing things from witnesses. We had some witnesses from the western part of Canada who thought the status quo was fine—if nothing happens and the agreement just continues, that's good.

You have a different opinion, Mr. Irving.

I wonder if Ms. Brooks or Mr. deMarsh could just expand a little bit. I didn't quite understand what you said about your views on the softwood lumber agreement. I wonder if you could just expand a little bit on that. I heard you say that consultation was needed.

[Cecelia Brooks]

Yes.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

But what else?

[Luke deMarsh]

In reference to the briefing note, I think we're talking about full consultation with first nations. In our New Brunswick context, the 2014 provincial strategy has just been released. This is something that first nations were not fully involved with. It's leading to a major shift forward in the forest industry, and we did not have proper consultation in that process.

That's an area where we feel the rights of first nations in terms of the duty to consult were not put in place the way they should have been.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Are you expecting—

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Sorry, Mr. Rafferty. You're out of time.

We'll go to Mr. Regan for up to seven minutes.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Sorry, Mr. Rafferty.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman.

Let me turn to you, Ms. Brooks. Perhaps you'll want to answer both this question and the other one and do Mr. Rafferty that favour.

When you speak of wanting to move to non-timber forest products, can you lay out for me what you foresee in that regard? What kinds of products do you have in mind?

[Cecelia Brooks]

B.C. is a really good model, I think. It's a very large province, of course, and there's a lot more land there. We see potential in New Brunswick in the hardwood forests and the more diverse forests, but not the farm trees. You can't get mushrooms to grow in these tree farms. Certain mushrooms will grow; I shouldn't say none. But we look at mushrooms as being a potential industry. We look at nutraceuticals. We look at some of the essential oils that are extracted and being used elsewhere. I mean, the essential oils industry can be expanded upon without even cutting the trees, right? It comes from the leaves, the needles, things like that.

Of course, if you look at non-timber forest products, we're talking about ecotourism as well. That has a large potential for expansion. We have some folks who are working out of the communities and in the first nations communities who are just doing some guiding, but we don't have a huge industry there any longer. It used to be, long ago, there was a lot of guiding going on where people would come in and do hunting and be involved in fishing guides and things like that.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you. I only have seven minutes, so I have to be quick.

Ms. Blenkhorn, can you tell me about the strategies that some of your members have in terms of dealing with the labour shortage? What strategies have you seen that are the most successful?

[Diana Blenkhorn]

Overall, the labour shortages that we've identified...and they touch virtually everything, right from getting wood out of the forest to truckers, as Mr. Irving talked about, to something a little bit more advanced, which is applying building techniques.

The one that I think I would draw to your attention, Mr. Regan, is the facility that just went up in Truro. It was supposed to have been built out of wood. There was no available labour to construct it with wood, so it was redesigned out of steel.

I'm not answering what our members have done in particular, but—

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

So nothing comes to mind in terms of particular programs that any of your members have used that have been really quite effective.

[Diana Blenkhorn]

No, it's just in general.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

It's a real big challenge.

[Diana Blenkhorn]

We've raised it for, I think as Mr. Irving said, some leadership from the federal government, but it is an issue.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Irving, I marvelled at hearing that a box of tissues adds about 35 times the value of a piece of wood, or of the tree. I mean, I would have had no idea. I don't know how that compares with what the various plastics are related to the value of a barrel of oil, for example, or natural gas.

It seems to me that part of the challenge going forward is going beyond that multiple, going to higher multiples, obviously. What do you foresee as the opportunities, in terms of the innovation and R and D that you're aware of, that hold promise for the future?

[James D. Irving]

I think from a value perspective tissue is a very good example; it's a tangible example, today's example. In the future, bio-fuel, bio-something. There's a lot of money being spent and there's a lot of research being done on it, but nothing has really come up on a commercial scale yet. Where is that going? I don't know. It should take us someplace positive, but there are lots of places around. Bio is based on fibre, and certain characteristics of fibre. There is lots of fibre in Brazil or Indonesia or the southern U.S. or other jurisdictions, too, where they have cheap, low-cost fibre, and they can convert it to bio-something.

I think it's good. We should support it, but we can't live in hope. People have to be employed today and we have to build our tax base today. Over time—and I think this is very important for Canada—if we look after our forests, they're a great asset. We tell the Province of New Brunswick, listen, you have crown land. That's a privilege, not a right. That's a privilege to have a piece of crown land. You should enforce good management of it. The company may come and the company may go. They might go bankrupt or they might stay for a hundred years, but if we look after the land, the province and the country, if it's universal in Canada, we'll have a great asset. We'll have trees growing. We'll have carbon sequestration. We'll have fish and wildlife. We'll have hunting, and we'll have value-added manufacturing operations. We'll have small, rural communities that will be able to sustain themselves. Those are all things that go with good management. But we have to start with managing the land with a vision of where we want to go.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Speaking of those small, rural communities, Mr. deMarsh talked about how each first nation in New Brunswick is unique and that you have to understand each community. What's your approach to this?

[James D. Irving]

In terms of how the rural communities fit into this?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Particularly with first nations, in terms of the labour shortage and trying to get more first nations people working in the industry....