Natural Resources Committee on May 5th, 2015

[Bob Hamilton]

If the question you're asking is whether they would have funding to be able to go forward and apply for the licence, sure. If you're talking about the funding to operate AECL in 2016-17 and beyond, that would not be captured.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I was asking about the licensing process, and there is a cost to that obviously.

The main estimates for AECL include $57 million for operations, $35 million for research and development, and $17 million for commercial business. Why are those numbers different from the $72.3 million in the budget?

[Bob Hamilton]

The numbers in the main estimates...?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Yes.

[Bob Hamilton]

Again, as we talked about earlier, the main estimates were put out ahead of the budget this year.

Anything that was in the main estimates wouldn't reflect what was in the budget. In those cases, they will be definitely different.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Does that mean that the estimates are wrong and it's reduced to $72.3 million?

That adds up to a lot more than $72.3 million obviously. Right?

[Bob Hamilton]

There were additional moneys that were provided to AECL as well.

The estimates aren't wrong. The only thing I'm pointing out is that when you look at government expenditures, they are a combination of main estimates, budgets, and supplementaries (A), (B), and (C). Right now we're caught with main estimates out there and then a set of budget measures. The budget, $72 million, is not the only funding that AECL received.

I don't know, Kami, if you have the number....

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Because that is kind of.... I mean, when you're looking for transparency and there are people who want an improved budgeting process, you would expect the full amount for the year ahead to be in the budget. If it's less than what was in the prereleased estimates, it's certainly disconcerting.

[Kami Ramcharan]

I can maybe provide a little point of clarification.

What's in the main estimates are those things that we have certainty on right now. What the budget provides is those things that are new or additional. You would see that there's $119 million provided to AECL through the 2015-16 main estimates. In addition, there's another $72 million that will be given to them. It's not whether the $72 million is the right number; it's the combination of those two.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you.

KWG Resources has put forward a detailed plan for the Ring of Fire. Mr. Rafferty was referring to the Ring of Fire earlier. They state that it will ensure its economic viability for several generations, and they believe, I gather, that the Ring of Fire is too precious to squander.

I'm sure the minister shares that opinion. I think we've seen that from his comments.

Why hasn't the government taken the initiative on this file? You see companies like KWG putting forward development plans like this and pleading with the government to provide the catalyst to create an environment in which investment and development of mining operations can begin up there. What's in the 2015 budget to kick-start activity in that area?

[Bob Hamilton]

I'm not going to comment on a particular project, but I will answer your question about the 2015 budget.

What's in the 2015 budget is an initiative on rare earth elements, chromite and others. The minister referred to it in his discussion. This is money that we're putting forward for research and development into how to best separate chromite and other rare earth metals, which is something that is difficult, complex, and needs further study. In the budget, we've put money toward that activity. That's the specific budget measure that is targeted. It's not targeted solely at the Ring of Fire, but it certainly has impacts for the activity that will take place in the Ring of Fire.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Of course, there are deposits elsewhere for rare earth elements.

[Bob Hamilton]

Yes, it will apply in those other ones as well.

It's really to try to develop the technology and innovation to take us forward in that area.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

But in terms of infrastructure, there isn't anything.

[Bob Hamilton]

In this budget, no.

There's a general Building Canada infrastructure fund, which—

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

It could be used for all kinds of things, of course.

The National Energy Board I gather is going to have new offices in Montreal and Vancouver. What are the costs associated with those?

[Bob Hamilton]

I will have to get back on that. You're right, I don't think they're actually up and running yet, but they have an intention—

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

They plan to have it in place—excuse me.

[Bob Hamilton]

Yes, and what they will actually cost I'd have to get for the committee. I don't have that information at my disposal.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Regan.

Finally, Ms. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you again for being here to speak to us about the main estimates. I mean this most respectfully. I think one only has to spend a couple of years on the government operations and estimates committee to understand the relationship between the main estimates, the budget, and all of the supplementary estimates, and how they provide us with a full picture of our government spending.

I also want to refer back to a comment that the minister made in his opening remarks when he said that these main estimates also include funding for the seven agencies under his portfolio.

Just building upon the questions that my colleague across the way had, I can well imagine there are budgets that are produced and presented that give a full explanation on how these agencies are spending the funding they receive, and of course, if there are any additional funds required, they would have to make those presentations to the minister. I want to build on that as well with a question about the Eyford report and the major projects management office. We know the government has a legal duty to consult aboriginal groups whenever its decisions or actions could have an impact on aboriginal communities or treaty rights.

Building on what the minister shared about the major projects management office, can you expand a little bit more on how the funds that are in this budget build on the recommendations from the Eyford report?

[Bob Hamilton]

Sure. I think I'll separate it into two things.

One—and it probably is a bit confusing—there's the major projects management office itself, which is really charged with looking at all of the major projects and making sure all the regulators are coordinated, taking a whole-of-government approach. That's the MPMO.

There's also the major projects management office-west, whose mandate is a little bit different and it's a lot more geared towards consultation with first nations. It's focused on resource projects in the west. That has been set up really in response to the Eyford report, to try to see if we could do a better job with engaging with first nations across all of government. It has that coordination aspect. We work with Transport, Environment Canada, and others, but it's more focused on the west coast and on those projects.

So the money that was provided in the budget was really for the first of those. It's for the broad activity that really is coordinating all of the projects across the country that the minister referred to—the $135 million over five years.

The major projects management office-west actually received its money two years ago, I think. They've already set up their office out west and they're actively engaging not only with other government departments, but also with first nations. I think they're becoming, as was intended, a go-to place for people who want to find out what's happening with projects, what does the government think, what are some of the programs that might be available for first nations to access. That's the single window that people have on the west coast to do that.

As you know, there's a lot of activity on the west coast. It's a busy place at the moment, but they have their money already and they're really just focused on getting the operation up and running, which they've done, and making sure that they effectively engage with first nations. I think we're already seeing some of the successes of that.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Can you remind me how much funding was given for the MPMO-West and the timeline for that office?

[Bob Hamilton]

I believe it was about $3.5 million per year. I don't know if I have the exact numbers in front of me. I'm not sure of the number or whether it extended for five years, but it was something in that order of magnitude that they were provided.

I can try to get the precise numbers for you. It wasn't in this budget. It was previously announced, but it was roughly that amount of money.

Do you have the numbers?