Natural Resources Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2013

[Scott Tessier]

Our authority in that regard.... If you think back, let's use the example of night flights. Judge Wells in the midst of his inquiry hit the pause button and came to the board and said, “I think we have a problem with respect to night flights. I think you should hit the time-out button on those.” The board in turn went to the operators, and the operators agreed.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Okay. That's an extreme example. You had a judge and a commission telling you to stop, right? Is that the only situation you can envisage in which that would happen?

[Scott Tessier]

The day-to-day responsibility rests with, in the case of the current regime, Cougar Helicopters and the operators.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

What about activities on a rig, for example? When would you say “Stop”?

[Scott Tessier]

We would as soon as there was a safety or environmental concern.

[Stuart Pinks]

With helicopters, an example—and this has been in place in both jurisdictions ahead of the recent Transport Canada regulations—is that of restricting flights over sea states where safe ditching could not occur. In other words, a sea state has to be below a certain threshold in order for flights to occur. Those limits were worked out between the boards and the operators, and they are now ingrained in legislation for Transport Canada.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Tessier, in relation to the provisions of Bill C-5 applying to the potential drilling in the St. Lawrence basin, which wasn't under your jurisdiction, it would seem to me there might be concerns raised, for instance, by other provinces—Quebec, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick—and of course there's no agreement at the moment that's been adopted between the federal government and these provinces in relation to this activity.

Do you see any problems with implementing this bill in the gulf in view of this?

[Scott Tessier]

I see no specific problems with respect to the gulf. On the broader question of drilling or proposals to drill in the gulf, we're in the process of completing an update of the strategic environmental assessment looking at that part of the world, what we call western Newfoundland and Labrador. The final report from the strategic environmental assessment update should be available to the public sometime next month.

With respect to the specific proposal to drill Old Harry and the project-specific environmental assessment, the board will turn its attention to that once the strategic environmental assessment has been completed in January.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

You don't see a role for your board in having any discussions with any other provinces, for example.

[Scott Tessier]

No. The authority that's been granted to us by the federal and provincial governments is in our Newfoundland and Labrador jurisdiction. It's for the activity in our offshore area, and that's where we issue our authorizations.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Regan.

We go now to five-minute rounds starting with Mr. Trost, followed by Ms. Block, Mr. Julian, and Monsieur Gravelle.

Please go ahead for up to five minutes, Mr. Trost.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you again to all of our witnesses here today.

Going back to the same idea from which I approached the issues with the previous witnesses, I'm trying to figure out how this would practically make some impact. You have effectively 12 lay people around here trying to understand something that you gentlemen have been specializing in for many years, I take it.

I understand there's going to be some new legal framework and so forth that comes out, but practically speaking, if I'm one of your junior staff, etc., working on this, what's going to change the day after the final legislative i is dotted and t is crossed? How will this start to functionally make things safer for the workers out there, since I'm assuming you gentlemen are currently already trying to do absolutely everything within your powers to make it safe?

Walk me through this. How is this going to help you do your jobs better and make things safer for our offshore oil and gas industry?

[Stuart Pinks]

The preface to your question I agree with. I said in my opening remarks that in the absence of this legislation, we put in place a set of occupational health and safety requirements that really ingrain the rights we've talked about and the duties we've talked about that are ingrained in this bill.

What will change on day one when this bill goes into place? There will not be a lot when it comes to what's happening in the offshore work environment, because the principles are already there and up and running.

What does change though is legal certainty and legal clarity, and the ability of the board to enforce the requirements. Right now if we find violations of our occupational health and safety requirements from an enforcement and a prosecution perspective, there is some legal uncertainty. This will give us the legal clarity we need to definitively enforce and definitively uphold the requirements within the legislation.

[Scott Tessier]

Yes, that's a good answer. It puts into regulation a lot of the good practices and good working relationships that were done on a more ad hoc basis until now.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Then, if I understand what you're saying, effectively now we have a responsible industry that's working responsibly with you. If the situation came in the future where we had less responsible corporate citizens, this would then allow us to deal with them in an effective manner. Have I summarized that correctly?

[Stuart Pinks]

That would be correct. The one struggle we would have without this legislation, or a significant struggle, is if we had that errant operator or errant employers who are supporting that operator, right now it's very difficult for us to enforce past the operator level. This legislation, because it has duties imposed on interest owners, operators, contractors, subcontractors, suppliers, etc., all of the various workplace parties that form this complex work environment in the offshore, allows us to enforce at each of those levels.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Okay. I can then see, because as you get smaller companies, you get a wider variety of clients and then there's a greater potential for something to go astray.

A couple things in various presentations were emphasized. Mike asked about public disclosure, which both of you emphasized, but I noticed something else. Again this is an area that's new to me. I notice distress on the whole hierarchy culture. Could you explain to me why that is so important? Looking from the outside, it is a little bit confusing on how these things are structured, and yet I understand the idea. Even to an outsider, while it may be confusing, you're looking for something that's clear. I've also heard talk about efficiency.

Could you talk to me about the whole concept of hierarchy, what that means to someone who doesn't totally understand the industry, the safety aspect, what it means and why it's important and why this legislation is dealing with it?

[Stuart Pinks]

If I'm understanding the question correctly, you're talking hierarchy in terms of the way the workforce is organized. At the work site, we will issue a licence to an interest holder. The interest holder—

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Let me just quote from something you have here, “Because this hierarchy is outlined in the bill”, and you're talking about “owners, interest holders, operators...”. That's what I'm referring to and that's what I'm getting at.

[Stuart Pinks]

Right now, as I said in my previous answer, if the legislation or the regulations are violated or an operator operates in non-compliance, it's the operator that we primarily have to deal with because they have an authorization granted by our board. Under this bill, there are duties that are imposed for safety on the operator. The operator has a set of duties in upholding safety. Any of the contractors or subcontractors that may be out in the workplace who are working under his direction also have duties. Those that supply goods and services to the offshore workplace have duties and responsibilities.

Let's go right down to the bottom level. Let's say a supplier of goods or services is not upholding their obligations and their duties under this legislation. We, as the board, can enforce at that level. Right now, without that hierarchy ingrained in law, we have to go through the operator and it's much more difficult to get down to that level.

To sum up, the bill has...safety is everybody's responsibility. Every employer, operator, interest holder, owner, employee, supervisor, manager, everybody has a role to play. With this legislation we are able to hold each of those parties accountable.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you very much, Mr. Trost.

We go now to the parliamentary secretary, Ms. Block, up to five minutes, please.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I welcome both witnesses here. Thank you for the testimony you've given today. It has been very informative.

I am a member from Saskatchewan. In the short period of time that I have been exposed to this proposed legislation, it has been very easy to see that the Atlantic offshore is indeed a unique workplace and brings with it some challenges that other workplaces would not.

It has been noted through previous questions and answers that there are a number of players involved, partners when it comes to ensuring the safety of offshore workers. I truly do appreciate the expertise and the commitment that you bring to this discussion today. All of that highlights and underscores the need for this legislation.

I'm going to follow up on the question that my colleague asked, which circles around the hierarchy of responsibilities. I know the departmental officials spoke to that and both of you have referenced it in your talking points.

I want to drill down to the fact that this legislation establishes an occupational health and safety advisory council for each of the offshore areas. I'm wondering if you would be willing to elaborate on how these councils will be involved with helping to improve health and safety issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Tessier, go ahead.

[Scott Tessier]

Yes. First, you spoke to the hierarchy, as did your colleague, and the number of players and the complexity. When you hear offshore regulators and regulators of the industry in general talk about safety culture, that reflects the importance of all the players understanding and living up to their responsibilities with respect to safety. That has become increasingly important in the offshore post the Macondo incident in the gulf a couple of years ago. The legislation does reflect that importance.

The mandate of the advisory council would be to advise the boards, the federal natural resources and labour ministers, and the provincial natural resources and, in the case of my jurisdiction, service Newfoundland and Labrador ministers on the administration and enforcement of the amendments and any other matters related to occupational health and safety. The makeup is spelled out in the legislation, who appoints whom.

Beyond that, I think that's as far as I can comment at this time, unless Stuart has any other wisdom to offer.