Natural Resources Committee on June 7th, 2018

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

When you say “enable”, is that in terms of legislation, or in terms of policy? What does “enabling” mean?

[Zoran Stojanovic]

Enabling is twofold. One is the direction. It could come from the government, such as the mandate that's potentially being proposed. It gives utilities a framework they can work against and they can all follow and speak the same energy language.

The second one is providing the guidance for utilities on the framework boundaries in terms of what those datasets are, what we need to store, and making it scalable, making it future-proof. Going forward, we don't know what datasets we're going to need 20 years from now, but the correct framework and schema for the data would allow us to do that, similar to what I mentioned about Wi-Fi.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Okay. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Unfortunately, that's all the time we have this morning, but we're very grateful to you for coming in. I hope your first experience was a good one.

Mr. Zindler, we'll be rooting for the Caps. We hope they win tonight.

Thanks for joining us.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

We are going to resume the meeting. Thank you, everybody, for your patience.

In our second hour, we have Statistics Canada. Thank you for joining us, Mr. Greg Peterson and Mr. René Beaudoin. We appreciate your being here.

As well, from the Department of Environment and Climate Change, we have Dominique Blain, Derek Hermanutz, and Jacqueline Gonçalves. Thank you all for joining us.

You know the process. I won't take time to explain it, because we're running a bit behind.

Why don't we start with Mr. Peterson?

[Greg Peterson, Director General, Agriculture, Energy, Environment and Transportation Statistics, Statistics Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to return to the committee.

I've been following with interest the testimony that has been given so far. I'd like to give a few very brief opening remarks.

I'd like to focus on the role that Statistics Canada, which is currently celebrating its 100th anniversary, plays in the national statistical system.

First, the Statistics Act specifically defers independent decisions of statistical methodology, communications, and operations to the chief statistician—that is to say, the agency. This independence means that we're not beholden to any particular constituency, and we believe this gives us credibility.

Another contributor to this credibility is the transparency under which we operate. We are transparent by sharing with the public our processes, our methods, and our data sources. Also, the work we do is guided by international standards.

Indeed, Statistics Canada has played a lead role in the creation of a number of standards, such as the UN's Energy Statistics Compilers Manual, the International Recommendations on Energy Statistics, and the UN System of Environmental-Economic Accounting. Having been a trusted source of information on Canada's economy, society, and environment for 100 years means that we are approaching emergent needs from a position of strength.

The second point I would like to make is that we recognize that we have to do better. As I mentioned the last time I was here, Statistics Canada is taking the opportunity now to lay the foundation for a more data-driven future. Driving this push to modernize is the understanding that we have to be more timely, we have to be more responsive, and we have to be able to produce more information at more granular levels. Our efforts thus far are starting to yield some positive results.

The answer is not necessarily in launching new surveys. Canadians have already paid their governments to acquire energy information, often for regulatory or administrative purposes. Also, there is a growing wealth of sensor and earth observation data that's collected by both public and private sectors. There is tremendous opportunity in better integrating existing data to provide value-added output, not just as information on energy production, distribution, and use, but also as linkages between energy and the environment, labour markets, and innovation.

We believe Statistics Canada is uniquely positioned to support this integration, not just as a holder of petabytes of data on the Canadian economy, society, and the environment, but also as a trusted custodian of data that understands issues of privacy, confidentiality, access, and information management. We already have a legislative and policy framework to make this work. This approach is not hypothetical but is happening in real time.

In the past year, we have supported the horizontal review of innovation and clean technology undertaken by the Treasury Board Secretariat. In this project, we integrated 10 years of program data from more than 90 programs across 24 different federal government departments, agencies, and crown corporations. We integrated this data into our existing data holdings, and with this linked dataset we can look at outcomes associated with these programs, kind of at a firm level, roll it up, and take a look at impacts.

On the data dissemination side, we are bringing greater insights on the complex and interrelated nature of social, environmental, and economic factors in the development of subject-specific information hubs. We kicked this off with the development of a Canada and the World statistics hub. We've continued this initiative with statistical hubs on cannabis, transportation, and the sustainable development goals, and we can do the same for energy.

Those are a few opening remarks. I'm going to close here.

In closing, I would like to reiterate that the world of data is rapidly evolving. Given the amount of data out there and the increasing number of players, the idea that there can be a single organization that can do all is probably a throwback to a bygone time.

Moving ahead, we have to keep in mind not only the state of play today but where we're going to be in the years ahead. Making advances in this context means partnering with others. It means creating platforms where information can be integrated and shared. It means using the strengths that each player in the information ecosystem provides.

Those are my comments. Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Ms. Gonçalves.

[Jacqueline Gonçalves, Director General, Science and Risk Assessment, Department of the Environment]

We did not prepare opening remarks this time because we did the last time, so we're happy to take questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

All right. Let's jump right in then. That's a good precedent to set.

Mr. Serré, I think you're going to start us off.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for having come to meet with us this morning.

My first question is for the Statistics Canada representatives.

Several witnesses have said that data is not up to date, and sometimes goes back several years. At the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, Statistics Canada officials made a presentation that was based on statistics from the 2013 General Social Survey. The next General Social Survey will be carried out in 2020. So we are looking at a seven-year gap between the two.

You say that you don't necessarily have to carry out more surveys, but I would like to know how you would go about gathering more data if additional resources were allocated to Statistics Canada.

[Greg Peterson]

The issues concerning timeliness are really good ones. In many ways, if we take a traditional survey-based approach, we're really constrained by the ability of our respondents to provide us with the information in a timely manner. For instance, if I take a look at our sub-annual statistics on energy, I see that we obtained information from provincial authorities in order to reduce response burden. In some cases, provincial authorities won't allow us to release data until they've released data on their jurisdiction themselves. In other cases, we're waiting some time in order to have data released.

I think we have to continually take a look at the different ways we approach data. In the agriculture space, we're currently working on a pilot project with Agriculture and Agri-Food, the Alberta Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, and the provincial body that deals with crop insurance. In that project, we're starting small. We're attempting to take a look at whether or not we can combine data from all of these sources and model crop yield data on a weekly basis that would be available a day or two after the end of the reference week. I think that's the type of environment that we need to go into, and for sure, we're not there yet.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

We have heard several witnesses say that there aren't many statistics or much data on renewable energies or the biomass.

My question could be for either organization.

Do you have any projects with a view to gathering more information in those two areas?

[Jacqueline Gonçalves]

I can tell you about what we are planning. That is certainly a priority for us, given the changes in the economy. This is one of the priorities we are working on with Statistics Canada. We can provide additional detail in writing, if you wish.

[René Beaudoin, Assistant Director, Environment, Energy and Transportation Statistics Division, Statistics Canada]

If I may comment, we are working together and adding this new function. Biomass is one example. There is biofuel as well. On renewables, we are working right now to catch up. It's part of quality. We are staying relevant. This domain evolves all the time.

As the subject becomes of more interest, we need to pick up. A few years back, wind and solar were not really there, so we asked ourselves, “Do we invest in getting the first solar panel so that we see the growth, or do we wait to have models in order to be ready?” Now we're catching up on a lot of things. A lot of our technology is allowing us to be faster now.

I have one small note on timeliness. I know you brought examples of data that took longer to release. We have a vast amount of data that is still generated very fast, according to international standards.

We have a lot of monthly surveys. Most of them come out within two months of the reference month, and some of them are 23 days afterward. It's very fast for IEA reporting on petroleum products. In annual reports, for RESD, the report on energy supply and demand, we increased our timeliness by six to eight weeks last year.

Again, it would depend on the respondent, but we are making headway on improving timeliness as well.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

We've heard from many witnesses about the need for a national energy centre, something similar to what they have in the United States. Obviously there's a lot of money attached to it, so it's a big government decision to be making, but if we were looking at trying to enhance the existing Statistics Canada situation or the existing areas here, what recommendations would you have for us as a committee?

You mentioned challenges with the provinces and some of the timeliness of releasing data. Do you have any specific recommendations, either of you, on what we could do in this area? I don't necessarily mean trying to establish another centre, but to work more collaboratively within the provinces, municipalities, and first nations, and still have Statistics Canada play a leadership role. Have there been any recommendations submitted?

[Greg Peterson]

Maybe I can unparcel that question into a few components.

To provide some context, I know from previous testimony that the recommendation has been to create an EIA type of institution here in Canada. Just to be clear, my understanding is that the budget for the EIA in its 2017 fiscal year was $122 million U.S. By contrast, the energy statistics budget within Statistics Canada is $4.6 million. To be fair, we're comparing apples and oranges, because we don't do forecasting and we have an existing statistical infrastructure that we can leverage in order to do our work, but there's an order of magnitude of difference there.

We already have the instruments in place to share data with provinces. Sections 11 and 12 of the Statistics Act give us the authority to share data with statistical focal points or with other provincial organizations, and we do with almost all provinces. Section 13 of our act gives us the authority to acquire administrative data from any level of government and any organization, and we exercise that as well, so there is already data moving between jurisdictions.

What we don't have, which we have in other subject matter areas, is the same types of consultative bodies that we may have in other areas. For instance, we have an agricultural statistics advisory committee that includes experts from the field. We have a federal-provincial-territorial committee on agricultural statistics as well, and we work closely with the provinces through that vehicle.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You have none.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I'm going to start with Statistics Canada. I didn't quite get you the last time you were here.

I appreciate the work you do. Thank you very much.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for coming to committee again. We appreciate your presentations.

In your comments you said you are laying the foundation to become more timely and more responsive, so how about more accessible?

[Greg Peterson]

Accessibility is a good point. We already make our estimates really available through CANSIM. We are making moves to make microdata more accessible. We already have a series of research data centres across the country that house social data, and we're working on making business data available through these centres as well. We're also attempting to move in the direction of providing secure remote access to qualified researchers.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

You mentioned that there have been a lot of comparisons between your organization and the Energy Information Administration in the U.S. I believe their information is much more accessible to stakeholders than perhaps Statistics Canada information would be.

Are you familiar with accessibility between your two organizations?

[Greg Peterson]

Do you mean in terms of quality of the website?

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

No, I mean just for acquiring statistical data.

[Greg Peterson]

My understanding, from the witnesses I've been following, is that the benefit of the EIA is accessibility to a range of information through a single point of access. We don't have that single point of access. We have various players that are producing very specific information.

In terms of accessibility to microdata itself, we do have tools and vehicles in place that allow people to have access to data.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Some of our previous presenters at committee indicated that your data is becoming more timely, within the three-month period that they would like to see it, as per my historical perspective, or within three months from the data point.

We've also heard presentations about real-time data. Is your organization prepared and able to accept real-time data and to report on it?