Evidence of meeting #113 for Natural Resources in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was trees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
October 18th, 2018 / 11:35 a.m.
NDP
Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC
Thank you, all, for being here today.
I'll pick up again with Mr. Connors.
I first want to thank you and all the firefighting agencies across the country for the work you do. I'm from the Okanagan Valley in British Columbia and we've had a tough go of it three out of the last four years. You mentioned the last two years especially. If we didn't have actual flames in our backyard, it was thick smoke.
I had the opportunity in the middle of July to tour the major air support base in Penticton that does air support for the southern part of the province. They hadn't had too much work up to then but while I was touring the planes and actually sitting in a cockpit, the alarm bells went off and I got out of their way. I think they didn't have a minute off until the end of August after that.
I know you've said that you don't have that expertise with the pests and I would just say that a lot of the fires were in mountain pine beetle-affected areas and I'm still waiting to see the reports and the science on that. There's some indication, I read this summer, that certainly when trees are red, still with dead needles, there's obviously increased risk.
When you have 58% of the lodgepole pine trees killed in B.C., it's kind of by chance you're going to see a lot of the fires in those areas. I'll leave it there because that's not your expertise.
I wanted to ask you about something, and maybe you can say I don't know this either. In terms of looking to the future, in British Columbia we have the forest devastated in the interior by mountain pine beetles and now by fires, and we're obviously facing a period now where we have to rebuild those forests, replant. I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts about that process or whether the firefighting agencies are involved in those plans for the future in terms of how are we going to design those forests to make them more fire resistant?
11:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre
That's an excellent question. In Canada, that thought and that strategy would fall totally within the provincial organizations. The forest service in British Columbia of course would be having those dialogues. I know you probably know this, but you have a great resource in British Columbia in Dr. Lori Daniels with the University of British Columbia, who has such a great grasp on the relationship between forest pest damage and fire and fuel load.
You're right, there are strategies around how we recondition the forest to adapt to climate change and to all of these issues, because, as you say, 50% of it is red. That means the fuel moisture content is gone. That means it's readily available for fuel. Anybody who's had a campfire in their life knows the difference between dry and wet fuels and what that means.
Clearly, provinces and territories and all levels of government need to have a strategy around how we reposition the forest and how we think about what the future will look like to meet both the economic and the public safety aspects.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC
In terms of public safety, the interface fires are of course what concerns people the most. That's where most of your efforts I guess are concentrated when you have to triage where you go.
Do you think there's an increased federal government role or responsibility in funding efforts to do these fire smart programs around communities, thinning the forest around communities, which would create jobs in the interior of British Columbia and elsewhere and also make our neighbourhoods safer because you wouldn't have so many catastrophic crowning fires entering communities as we had in Fort McMurray, Kelowna and elsewhere?
11:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre
Absolutely, 100%. The tools are there and the Canadian wildland fire strategy speaks to.... You refer to FireSmart Canada. It's an excellent tool for communities to build resiliency, to be prepared for these types of situations. The only thing lacking is the investment piece. That was recognized in 2005. It was confirmed in 2016, and it was talked about again in Halifax this year with the Canadian Council of Forest Ministers.
There is a plan in place. There are tools to do exactly what you said, and what is missing is the investment. I personally think the Government of Canada can play a huge role in leadership to help increase the amount of fire smart and mitigation strategies across this country and work with communities to become resilient.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC
Thank you.
I'll turn to Tree Canada then.
Thank you for your efforts. When I lived in Vancouver, we had an elementary school that my kids went to at the end of the block, and it was just two square blocks of gravel. My wife worked on a committee to plant trees there. I don't know but maybe your group was involved, so thank you for that. I'm very heartened to hear your comments about how Canadians living in urban environments need that connection with trees and nature. It's a big part of what I've been doing over my career.
I want to talk about the gypsy moth. We had an issue with gypsy moths. I think it was in the early nineties. It was Asian gypsy moth. In Vancouver there was spraying with Bt, which was apparently successful, but we still have European gypsy moth showing up in spots in B.C. every year.
A lot of those incidents happen in urban sites, and there is often concern around aerial spraying. I'm wondering if you could comment on that, how people react to it and what the issues are.
11:40 a.m.
President, Tree Canada
That's a good question. It's a difficult one to respond to, but I'll try to do the best I can. I've had a career long enough now that I can actually remember different waves of gypsy moth. I've worked mostly in eastern Canada, although I did work two summers on Vancouver Island, at MacMillan Bloedel and Weldwood, actually, as a student. It seems that left to its own devices, the European gypsy moth has been mostly controlled, if you will, by natural predators. It's actually quite an amazing story.
I was a forester at one point. Before Tree Canada, I worked for the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources, and I remember in the early nineties when I had to respond to a gypsy moth infestation north of Toronto in a township called the Township of King. I remember that the ministry was proposing a spray with Bt, which is a natural bacteria that the insect ingests. It kills the insect and has no effect on other wildlife, so it's very good to use. It was in a forest situation. I remember the mayor calling me, very upset with respect to the spraying, but years later, when the infestation arrived at her doorstep, she was on the phone again asking, “Where's the ministry?” and that sort of thing.
On a single tree, I think it's very difficult to use those products. In a forest situation, they can be used and Bt seems to be the one to go with.
11:40 a.m.
Kent Hehr Calgary Centre, Lib.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you guys for coming and presenting to the committee. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated.
I listened with great interest to Mr. Connors' initial comments regarding the growing threat of wildfires and their robust and apparently growing nature throughout this country. I'm from Calgary, Alberta, but we were under siege up in Fort McMurray, Alberta, where we had the fire that was called “the beast” because of how intense it was, how it kept growing and how it threatened not only the natural landscape but almost the town of Fort McMurray. I'd like to applaud the first responders and firefighters up there who did such a great job.
I have a question for you. Although you can't put a specific, exact cause on any one fire, is it your organization's opinion that climate change is the cause of increased fire breakouts and disasters throughout this country?
11:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre
It is our belief, based on the science that has been presented, that climate change has led to the increase in intensity and complexity of the fires after they start. Out of ignorance, I'm not sure if there's any correlation between fire starts and climate change, but there is a correlation in terms of fire intensity and complexity of suppression, and the length of the fire season.
For instance, this year was precedent-setting for our organization, in that we started moving Canadian and international resources in Canada in the month of May. Normally, in the month of May all the provinces and territories and Parks Canada are capable of handling their own internal situations. They couldn't this year, and it went through until late in the month of September. Those are the effects we're seeing of climate change, the length of the season and the intensity and complexity of the fires.
11:45 a.m.
Calgary Centre, Lib.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Rosen, my question to you is the same. Do you believe that climate change is affecting urban populations of trees, that it is the cause of what is occurring in our cities and the broader landscape and it is to blame for our decreasing forests?
11:45 a.m.
President, Tree Canada
There's no doubt that a changing climate is producing changes in all forests—rural and urban for that matter. We've seen that in a very concrete way at Tree Canada. We respond to natural disasters under a program called Operation ReLeaf. We found that it started with the Kelowna wildfires in 2003 and then it went into another year. We're finding that the years of fires are increasing, and we're being called into action to reforest areas after these wildfires.
I'll tell you one quick story. We've done a large program in Fort McMurray. We planted over 50,000 trees in Fort McMurray after 2016. We're very close to the municipality. We planted recreational trails. We're still waiting for the residences to be fully constructed. We figure next year is going to be a really big year for us for planting. Ironically, I was in Fort McMurray on September 22, attending a ceremony with the mayor about the planting of trees at some of these residences that were burnt in 2016, when my phone went off because we had tornadoes in Ottawa and Gatineau.
I think emergency planning is a big part of what municipalities have to deal with now, because they're being called in to take care of trees that are under incredible duress from things like.... Who would have thought a tornado in Ottawa-Gatineau? I had to check. I didn't think it was real when I first heard about it. Yes, it's very real. Obviously, Tree Canada will be moving to have some kind of a program to help, because we're part of this community, so we'll help this community as well.
You're absolutely correct. I think a changing climate is contributing to the intensity, as Mr. Connors said. Also, the nature of these disturbances is very irrational, very unpredictable and very severe. That's part of what we have to deal with.
11:45 a.m.
Calgary Centre, Lib.
When you advocate for policies for governments to adopt towards the actual management of forests—whether large scale or small scale or whether they be outside the municipality or inside—what policy parameters would you like to see governments implement that will be the best for our forest health and urban management, given the pressures that bear?
11:45 a.m.
President, Tree Canada
I think part of the question relates to the standardization of things across the country, the amount of green space and also certain practices—for instance, the use of many species of trees not only in rural areas but also in urban areas. The urban forest fell into a pattern of planting one type of tree along many streets, and that didn't lead us to a very good place after Dutch elm disease and emerald ash borer. Therefore, part of it is standardizing or showing municipalities the pieces that they need to take control of with regard to choosing their species of trees, choosing the genetic diversity and how to maintain them—all with respect to our changing climate at the same time.
This is why we were speaking about a role for federal scientists and for the federal government to get involved because we feel that municipalities want this stuff. They're thirsty for knowledge. They're thirsty for workshops, conferences, knowledge and direct technology transfer around managing trees in their communities. They're not getting that as much from Canadian sources as they could.
11:50 a.m.
Calgary Centre, Lib.
Michael, you told me that 300,000 trees are planted in urban municipalities per year. Is that correct?
11:50 a.m.
President, Tree Canada
And in rural municipalities. We do seedling plantings as well.
11:50 a.m.
Calgary Centre, Lib.
Yet the number of trees in these jurisdictions is decreasing.
11:50 a.m.
President, Tree Canada
It is declining, yes. In Vancouver for instance, the canopy cover has actually gone down in the last 20 years in spite of all the wonderful green efforts and great community efforts and all that. Part of it is invasive insects. That's taking a big toll. A lot of it is actually figuring out how we densify our municipalities. Remember we want to do smart growth. We don't want to create a lot of suburbs. It's much smarter to develop within our municipalities, but that can take a horrible toll on the trees unless we protect the trees. That's what we're dealing with these days.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Thank you, Chair.
I appreciate having the opportunity to visit with you again, Mr. Duguay and Mr. Rosen, and I appreciate what you're saying. I received my little lapel pin from Tree Canada at Canora, Saskatchewan, a town of a little over 2,000 people that planted 260 trees along a walkway in a park and really appreciated the opportunity to work with you. It is among the top 10 places to retire to in Canada. I'll just make note of that for all of you.
