Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 26th, 2019

[Dr. Liza Mack]

We know a little bit. We know that a forum is happening in April in St. Petersburg. We have a lot of issues with getting our board members from Russia to different meetings because of visa issues. With the large time zone difference and the difficulties of getting people in and out, it's hard to have a firm grasp on exactly what's happening. Besides the time zone, the communication is pretty limited. There's also the weather in Nikolskoye, which is on the Commander Islands, the very last islands where the Aleuts live. It's pretty bad weather, so they don't get out a whole lot either.

I can't speak to exactly how well their government-to-government relations are with Russia specifically.

[David de Burgh Graham]

It's interesting that you mentioned the weather. You talked about the traditional means of living in that area, which I imagine is essential given the supply chains out there. What is the effect of climate change on the communities?

[Dr. Liza Mack]

It's been a lot stormier, for sure. We are experiencing a lot of coastal erosion, not only in our region but also I think further north as well. In my hometown just the other day I think the maximum wind gusts were blowing at 80 miles per hour. That happens every few weeks. We've also been reinforcing our shores in places where our buildings and things are.

Yes, it is certainly something that's on the minds of a lot of people, being able to get in and out safely from our communities. No roads connect any of our communities, really. It's by boat or by plane. Not only is it very dangerous, but it's also very costly. It does have both its benefits [Technical difficulty—Editor]

[David de Burgh Graham]

My time is up, and so is our connection.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thanks, Mr. Graham.

Mr. Cannings, you have three minutes.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I'll be brief here. I have only three minutes, so I'll ask you both one question.

I think both of you mentioned the idea of capacity, where we have a lot of small communities, especially when confronted with having to deal with resource decisions that affect their communities, who often don't have the capacity to properly assess them. I would like to ask you both in turn about that issue around capacity. How is that improving in Canada? Is that something the government has to take consideration of? Is there something we should be doing to build that capacity?

Perhaps you could start, Chief Erasmus, and then Ms. Mack could comment on that as well.

[Chief Bill Erasmus]

Thank you. That's a good question.

In terms of capacity, you'll find that the way our communities work is that they are broken into really two parts. In one you have the thinkers; if those people don't agree to something, then it's not going to work. In the other you have the people who actually do the action; if they don't have the capacity to understand a particular proposal or whatever it might be, then it's really difficult. If in your recommendations you could consider developing a capacity fund that could help communities in these instances, that would really help. There are some things they're doing now in the north where, for example, they've developed funds that they attach to proposals. If the lands are decimated, there's a fund set aside to restore afterwards. That is a big help.

The other thing we have in Canada that you need to be cognizant of is that in the Northwest Territories and Yukon, essentially we're not on reservations. The reservations were never set up as they were in the south. Because of that, we generally lose. For example, when the federal budget comes up, it will say, “for first nations on reserve”. Well, that eliminates us. If it goes to the north, then generally those monies will go to the territorial governments. The first nations are left out. If you would look at us all as if we were all on reservations, that would help us.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Could you comment on capacity issues?

[Dr. Liza Mack]

Sure. Thanks.

I know that capacity isn't always about funding. It's also about being able to give people the time to properly engage with the ideas you're presenting and the projects being presented.

The people I talked to in my dissertation research all served on boards and their city councils, all these different things. Usually within a community you have a very small number of people participating in all these things.

For example, I think one man was on four or five boards for about 40 years. Think about all of the things he has had to read, to do and to be involved in, and a lot of those things are volunteer. A lot of times when we're talking about capacity and being invited to go to meetings and to speak on these things, a lot of those things are done out of the kindness of your heart.

When we're inviting people's opinions and for them to be consulted about things, they need to be compensated—and not just compensated because you're giving them good advice or different things, but also to be able to pay for the time they're spending to read reports about impact statements and to be able to do background so they can understand it.

[Inaudible—Editor] is multiple, not just in giving the time but also making sure that we give them the opportunity to give you good advice.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

We're going to have to stop there.

Thanks, Mr. Cannings.

Chief Erasmus and Ms. Mack, thank you both very much for taking the time to be here with us and contribute to the study. Your evidence is very helpful and I know I speak for all when I say that. I'm very grateful for your joining us. You're both free to go.

I think we can go five minutes longer to finish dealing with your motion, Ms. Stubbs.

You're free to stay and watch, Chief, if you want to, but I can't promise it will be any more exciting than the first time we discussed it. It's up to you.

Ms. Stubbs.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Can we have a recorded vote?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Are we ready to vote on the motion?

Hold on. Mr. Whalen has a question.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I did ask whether or not it was okay, and if possible, that the meeting be televised. I just want to make it clear that it's more important that the meeting happen and that it be televised. We can't get both. Right now, it seems we could be stymied by the finance committee. It might also want to be televised at the same time as the justice committee. We might not get to it.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I think you answered it, but go ahead.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Jubilee Jackson]

I did suggest this when it was put on notice. Ultimately, it's up to the whips to decide which committees will be televised during a given time slot. There are a limited number of committees which can be televised at any given time. We could leave it up to the whips to decide. I leave it with you, or amend it, as you wish.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

If it's amended that way, are you okay with that?

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

No, I prefer not to amend the motion and just have it moved as written.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Okay. So we're voting on the motion as is and we'll have a recorded vote.

(Motion agreed to: yeas, 9; nays, 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

There's no further business. We will not be having a meeting on Thursday.

The meeting is adjourned.