Natural Resources Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you. I'm going to have to stop you there.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Cannings is next.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I'll start with you, Mr. Cheatle. Thanks for your presentation.

I want to ask about innovation, clean technology, and renewable energy. I think Canadians realize this is the key to our future competitiveness in the world. I just wonder how those sectors might play a significant role in the mining world.

[Andrew Cheatle]

Mr. Canning, thank you very much for the question, and it's a subject very dear to my heart.

The metals and minerals that are going to be required to work towards a carbon-neutral and very reduced carbon future are going to have to be mined, whether it's by the graphite and graphene companies in Ontario that are moving forward with major projects or whether it's by another of our members, such as Avalon Resources, with their rare earth metals at Thor Lake in the Northwest Territories. The metals and minerals that store electricity and the copper that transmits the electricity are all very important. We're very acutely aware of that. We're already seeing a major spurt in exploration growth in, say, lithium, for example.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I was just reading about lithium yesterday. I know there's a lot of exploration going on in places like Chile, but I understand that Canada might have some very good lithium deposits in terms of purity. Is that something that's really being investigated?

[Andrew Cheatle]

It is. It's very early days. There is one company, Canadian Lithium in Quebec, that currently produces. Also, the lithium that comes out of veins, if you like, is of a purer quality and easier to extract than the content of the brines you're referring to that come out of Chile.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Yes.

I'll turn to another subject that has been talked about here this morning, and that is first nations and consultation. I want to find out what the PDAC's take is on free, prior, and informed consent. For instance, the IFC, the lending arm of the World Bank, has incorporated free, prior, and informed consent into its sustainability framework. What is the position of PDAC on this issue?

[Andrew Cheatle]

Again, that's a very good question, Mr. Cannings. Having worked with the IFC, I'm very familiar with many of the points.

We stand behind the Government of Canada and the recent commentary by our justice minister and Minister Bennett that free, prior, and informed consent is very important. It is not, however, a right to veto. It's a right for us all to work together and to come to a solution.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Okay. With that, I'm going to turn to Mr. Zahovskis.

Thank you for your presentation. You spent a great deal of time explaining the great amount of effort you've put into engaging local first nations. I think you mentioned there were 14 first nations involved in—

[Christopher Zahovskis]

Fifteen.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Oh, it was 15. Okay.

You said one, the Woodstock First Nation, was close to signing a co-operation agreement. What are the feelings of the other 14? I see news reports that six or seven of them were disappointed with the New Brunswick EIA decision. I get the feeling that they feel their views haven't been met.

I guess I have two questions. One, what are the concerns that they feel aren't being met? Two, how do you feel that their decisions might play into something around free, prior, and informed consent?

[Christopher Zahovskis]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Cannings.

First of all, of those 15 first nations in New Brunswick, there are two groups, the Maliseet and the Mi'kmaq. The project is situated over what is believed and felt to be traditional Maliseet territory, so the Maliseet first nations require a deeper level of consultation than do the Mi'kmaq. That's the guidance that was given to the proponent when we first came into the province, so that's where we focused our attention.

That said, as I mentioned earlier on, our EIA working group comprises all 15 first nations, so we didn't make any distinction between Maliseet and Micmac. We said that we understand it's first nations, so all 15 are welcome to join.

In terms of the co-operation agreement, we extended that not only to the Assembly of First Nations but to the other Maliseet nations. As I said, Woodstock took us up on it. There is another one that is starting to engage with us and saying that they might be interested in sitting down and talking with us. We're prepared to do that.

As to the concerns the first nations have, if I could just generalize it, I don't know specifically what all the concerns are. I don't know, for example, what the Mi'kmaq concerns are with the CSR report, but I do know that when it comes to developing a mine, there is sensitivity. They're sensitive, for example, to losing traditional hunting grounds that they're used for hunting and gathering. Some of those are their typical concerns, and of course there's also what the impact to the environment would be.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

You mentioned the fact that the crown has the duty to consult, and not necessarily your company. I wonder how that is playing out in your project.

[Christopher Zahovskis]

Even though we understand it's the crown's duty to consult, we have spent the last five and a half years, the whole time, consulting with the first nations. That's an area where we spend 80% of our efforts.

Both the governments realize they have a role to play in consultations. Unfortunately, these things do take time. These consultations are not very prescriptive. Consultation is necessary, but it's that aspect that's creating the delays, if you will.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you. I'm going to have to cut you off there.

Mr. Serré, we'll go over to you, but first I have a quick question for everybody. Do we want to extend by five minutes because of the technical problem? Is there a consensus?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Go ahead, Marc.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming today with insightful presentations.

There is, as Mr. Whyte alluded to, no carbon tax proposed. We're looking at carbon pricing on pollution. One of the things both Mr. Cheatle and Mr. Whyte talked about is the uncertainty. Over the last number of years the provinces had to do something, so 80% of the population has carbon pricing.

From your perspective, will what we are doing now to consult with the provinces in putting a plan in place help to reduce uncertainty?

[Andrew Cheatle]

I think anything that helps to reduce uncertainty in an already risky business helps. I think if people know what the standards are, then it always does help.

[Garth Whyte]

I would say the same. The proof is in the pudding and how it's done.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Cheatle, you mentioned earlier the flow-through shares, the 15% mineral tax credit, the infrastructure investment, the environment, indigenous issues, and skilled training. Those are five or six recommendations you had that we're all trying to work toward.

My question is more related to how we can support mining clusters. Right now we have maybe 37 areas across Canada that have mining sites, but there are few clusters. When you look at ecosystems and clusters, they're trying to look at that value-added aspect for jobs in the mining and supply industry. What can we do to help build better and stronger clusters to be a world leader in that area?

[Andrew Cheatle]

I think in many respects, Mr. Serré, Canada is very much a world leader in that area. I don't think we necessarily promote it as much as we should. In Sudbury, from where you are, of course the Nickel Belt is one. Toronto is often overlooked. The cluster in terms of mining finance, lawyers, consultants, and so on is sometimes not even recognized by Toronto itself. Vancouver is similar.

[A Voice]

Saskatchewan.

[Andrew Cheatle]

So is Saskatchewan, I was going to say, in terms of its expertise in uranium and potash.

Promoting the skills we have—and we do export these, both within our own nation and abroad—is an area where Canada can very much continue to excel and be very proud of.