Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 18th, 2016

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Turning to the innovation theme, are there any innovations you can talk about that would help us in that regard, with respect to the role the federal government could play in incentivizing innovation? We're talking a lot here about making mining more innovative, cleaner, and that sort of thing. Is there anything we could do to spur that on?

[Prof. Brent Sleep]

Research funding is the key. We have to pay research costs and support students, and so any programs that provide funding for environmental research are a great help to enhancing or advancing the remediation expertise in Canada.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I know you come at it from the research end, but I wonder if you could comment on the legal or more technical side of what companies are required to do right now, and how that could be changed or advanced.

[Prof. Brent Sleep]

A lot of the remediation is driven by land transfers. When a property is being transferred from one owner to another there's often a requirement to clean up that property. I think this drives a lot of remediation.

Certainly, legislation is in many cases what drives a company to seek solutions to clean up a contaminated property. Strong legislation provides a stimulus to the remediation industry.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Mr. Paquin, at the end of your talk, you mentioned, very briefly, a national strategy for mining, and I wondered if I could give you the opportunity to say a bit more on that. It sounds like a big subject.

[Richard Paquin]

It is, and because they are non-renewable resources, we have to be sure that the product that we draw from the ground is allowed to be fully processed in Canada before it gets to the point of sale. Currently, we have many industries where the rock is mined in Canada and milled here but sent across the sea to Norway like Glencore, for example. All their material is sent to Norway to be refined rather than having the refiners in Canada. That would benefit all our workers here in Canada up to the point of sale.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I appreciate that because I have a large smelter in my riding, in Trail, which does the opposite.

We get ores from all over the world.

Is the strategy just around making that value chain more robust in Canada?

[Richard Paquin]

It's one of the issues. The other issue is to make sure that when a big foreign company comes into Canada, it guarantees jobs for a certain amount of time.

I'll give you an example. We had the big layoff in 2009 in Sudbury, Ontario, where at that time Xstrata had just signed a deal to purchase Falconbridge. Part of that deal to the net benefit process was that there should be no layoffs for two years to guarantee employment for at least that period of time. Unfortunately, they met with government and because of the situation were given permission to lay off almost 60% of their members before the two years were up.

Part of the condition was that they had to reinvest another $200-some million. That never occurred but people still got laid off. Something needs to be done to make sure that what I call a loophole is blocked to guarantee the maximum amount of employment for our workers in Canada.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

You mentioned some issues around first nations and the duty to consult but you also talked about education. I was just wondering if you had any comments on a further role the federal government could play in the education of first nations in communities, at all levels from elementary to post-secondary.

[Richard Paquin]

I've got some good news. I'm part of the MiHR. One of our new mandates now as a council is to ensure that aboriginal people are part of the training where their skills will be transferable from province to province if they move on. We just started that concept. I presume the government will continue funding that to make sure that happens; that everyone is given the same opportunity as everyone else.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Rusnak, we'll move over to you.

[Don Rusnak, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

The 2015 report of the Mining Industry Human Resources Council identified a number of labour challenges over the coming decade that could impinge on the sector's health, such as impending retirements and mismatches between skills and potential workers. The committee has heard that historically, Canada's mining sector workforce has been primarily male. Moreover in 2015, a report by the Native Women's Association of Canada identified barriers for indigenous women participating in the mining workforce.

What risks do labour challenges pose to the health and safety of the mining industry?

[Richard Paquin]

The risk is the lack of training, more than anything. I'll give you another observation. You return home every day. If you're not properly trained, then the risks are a lot higher than for someone who's given the job and told to do it and learn as they go. First of all, have policies in place to make sure the proper training is there before they can commence any type of work in the mining industry.

[Don Rusnak, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

What can the unions or the companies do to increase the participation of women or indigenous people in the workforce? We know that in my area of the country, first nations are increasing greatly. They're participating more in the workforce. How can we get them interested in mining? What has Unifor done or what do you know the companies have done to increase that participation?

[Richard Paquin]

I know probably in the last 10 years, more emphasis than before has been given to female employees. Years ago, that wasn't the case. There were very few. But the good news is that industry has seen that female operators are more dependable and more able to take care of the machines than male operators. That may be because of who they are, which is great.

I think a lot more emphasis needs to be put on trades. A lot of women are able to have the great skills to be able to do the work, and I think we should concentrate more to give them the ability to get those trades. There are no gender differences in that area.

[Don Rusnak, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I have a question for Professor Sleep.

You mentioned there was collaboration with U of T, but is there collaboration with colleges or on-the-ground trades training or people in the industry? You talked about a lot of collaboration with other universities or academic institutions, but I often hear when I travel to the mine site in my district that the skills of the engineers coming out of the schools—and I don't know if they are coming out of U of T—sometimes don't match what they need on the ground. So is U of T actively training its students who are involved in the industry with an eye to the skills that the industry needs on the ground?

[Prof. Brent Sleep]

The University of Toronto Engineering faculty has a program called the professional experience year. We place students from our mineral engineering program in mining industries for either summer internships or 12- to 16-month internships. Through that process, they get very good on-the-ground training. Some of our students' courses are taught by people from industry, so that really gives them a good appreciation of what the industry is all about and what skills are needed for the industry. Of course, they are fresh graduates when they get out to the mines, so there's always a period of adjustment and learning.

[Don Rusnak, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

What are your numbers right now at U of T with regard to women, indigenous people, and under-represented groups in your programs?

[Prof. Brent Sleep]

For the mineral engineering program, the first year intake this year is 40% women. Ten out of 22 are women. I do not believe we have any indigenous students in the program. We have certainly identified that as a shortcoming not just in the mineral engineering program but across the Engineering faculty.

[Don Rusnak, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Do you know what the University of Toronto is doing to engage or recruit in first nations areas? I know Richard talked about the Ring of Fire having huge potential for Ontario and perhaps being the next big mining district in the country. That area is occupied primarily by the Matawa first nations or first nations represented by the Nishnawbe Aski Nation. Has U of T been engaging with any of those communities to get people trained through its programs?

[Prof. Brent Sleep]

The University of Toronto Engineering program is investigating the potential for starting transitional programs. I don't know if you're aware of the ENGAP program at the University of Manitoba. We recently had the director of that program visit us and talk about their successes, and we are investigating other examples like that across the country.

[Don Rusnak, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I have a question for Richard. What can be done to increase the participation of women and the indigenous people in the mining industry, and what exactly has Unifor been doing?

[Richard Paquin]

In some of our collective agreements, we've actually put in provisions such that we will request that a certain percentage of employees be aboriginal people or women, that's part of the quota. In order to get that, we have to get a collective agreement in place. Unless they see them in the workplace, that's hard to get.

[Don Rusnak, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Has Unifor been doing outreach in the under-represented communities?

[Richard Paquin]

We have. We have also been helping those communities by repairing their homes and all that stuff. So, we're doing our fair share to promote ourselves within those communities, and maybe in time we'll be a bigger player.