Evidence of meeting #4 for Natural Resources in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Beth MacNeil  Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources
Jeff Waring  Director General, Trade, Economics and Industry Branch, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources
Elisha Ram  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Alan Bulley  Director General, Employment Programs and Partnerships Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development
Katie Alexander  Executive Director, Temporary Foreign Worker Program and Work-Sharing Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome back.

After a hard-working week in the ridings, we're all pleased to be back here to start our first study of the session. As everyone knows, we're going to be talking about the forest industry.

To kick us off, we have officials from the Department of Natural Resources, whom I spoke to before the meeting started. I told them they have to set the tone for the whole meeting, so they're feeling a great deal of pressure.

We have Beth MacNeil, assistant deputy minister from the Canadian Forest Service, and Jeff Waring, director general of the economics and industry branch at the Canadian Forest Service. Thank you both for coming.

There's no need to explain to you how committees work because you know full well. I will remind everyone that we are televised today, so be on your best behaviour.

With that, I'll turn the floor over to you, Ms. MacNeil. I believe you're going to start us off.

3:30 p.m.

Beth MacNeil Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources

That's correct. Thank you.

As the head of Natural Resources Canada's Canadian Forest Service, it's a privilege to be here today to engage with you on the state of play of Canada's forest sector—the challenges and the opportunities. Thank you for the invitation.

As committee members already know, forests and the forest sector play an important role in our economy, our environment, the well-being of Canadians, and our future.

With a GDP of $25.8 billion, comprising 6% of Canada's exports, and supporting more than 210,000 jobs and 300 rural communities, the forest sector is an important economic driver coast to coast. It is also one of Canada's largest employers of indigenous people, with more than 11,000 employed in the sector. We're also working to improve the recruitment, retention and development of women, a greater number of indigenous people, and new Canadians along the full value chain.

I'd like to share with you key factors influencing the sector across Canada today and why many view the sector to be at a crossroads. Some factors that are having a cumulative impact on the competitiveness of the sector are trade disputes, decreasing forest fibre due to increased disturbances such as wildland fire and pests associated with the changing climate, the desire to conserve spaces and species to protect Canada's biological diversity, infrastructure capacity to get our products to market, and at times, the questioning of Canada's environmental reputation when we are a world leader in the sustainable management of our forests.

Due to one or more of these factors, we have seen both permanent and temporary closures of mills across Canada—in BC, Quebec, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia, affecting thousands of workers along the value chain.

And most recently, we have seen the impacts on the sector from the rail blockades, and we are monitoring potential impacts from the COVID-19 outbreak.

In addition, the sector is dealing with the growing trend toward protectionism, particularly from Canada's largest market, the United States. While Canada successfully resolved one trade dispute with China on dissolving pulp, and two with the U.S. on supercalendered paper and uncoated groundwood paper, U.S. import duties on Canadian softwood lumber remain in place. These tariffs greatly affect the competitiveness of lumber producers, constraining their operations. Due to the integrated nature of the forest sector, the impact of these tariffs trickles down to pulp and paper producers and other users of sawmill residues, like wood chips.

More recently, India launched an investigation on Canadian newsprint, which could result in the imposition of duties. Duties on this product could have a significant impact, as producers are already dealing with a declining market.

As mentioned, the forest sector is at a crossroads. While in some regions of the country, traditional forest sector activities and products may not be possible at the scale they once were, new opportunities exist for Canada to emerge as a world leader in the area of the circular bioeconomy using forestry and forestry-derived products as nature-based solutions to many of the challenges we are facing today. For example, there is no solution to climate change without forests.

Canada's leadership role in the sustainable management of our forests can carry over to being a leader in the transition to a low-carbon economy and the circular bioeconomy. At Natural Resources Canada, we have significant scientific programming, collaborating with provinces and territories in areas such as sustainable forest management; wildland fire; and forest pests, including research on the mountain pine beetle and spruce budworm. We look forward to operationalizing the government's commitment to planting two-billion trees as a means of increasing carbon sequestration and providing other environmental benefits, such as water conservation and wildlife habitat.

We also have industry programming with multiple benefits, including: advancing forest sector competitiveness; supporting indigenous economic development; and advancing nature-based solutions through innovative uses of wood and wood fibre.

We're using our scientific knowledge, industry intelligence, programming and partnerships to support players in the sector to diversify both markets and products and produce higher-value bioproducts. Bioproducts, biochemicals, and bioenergy can replace traditional products and reduce demand for fossil-fuel based and non-renewable materials, such as plastic, cement and steel.

The World Business Council for Sustainable Development estimates the market opportunities for the circular bioeconomy to be worth between $150 billion and $240 billion in 2030. In 2017, the federal-provincial-territorial ministers responsible for forests recognized the importance of Canada's forest to the bioeconomy and endorsed the forest sector bioeconomy framework. Canada can be a global leader in this area. Currently, NRCan is looking to support initiatives using fibre residue to produce 100% compostable bioproducts. These products would be thrown in your compost bin, not your blue box.

I'd like to share with you a few concrete examples of how the Canadian forest sector offers real solutions. We have built great tallwood buildings in recent years, like Brock Commons, an 18-storey new student residence at UBC. This building is not only an engineering and architectural showpiece, but until recently it was the tallest wood building in the world. It is also an environmental game-changer. Constructed in nine and a half weeks, it stores close to 1,600 metric tonnes of carbon dioxide and has saved more than 1,000 metric tonnes in greenhouse gas emissions. This is equal to taking 500 cars off the road for a year.

Another example is the Origine building, a 13-storey wood tower in Quebec City's Pointe-aux-Lievres eco-district, which is the tallest solid wood condominium in North America.

We are supporting remote communities, through our indigenous forestry initiative and off-diesel programs, converting their diesel-based heating systems to biomass. For instance, the Kwadacha Nation in central B.C. is converting mountain pine beetle-killed timber into fuel for a community bioenergy plant. Oujé-Bougoumou Cree Nation in Quebec is renovating its biomass heating system to improve the efficiency and reliability of its district heating system.

While workers, communities and firms are experiencing the most serious of consequences in job loss and mill closures, there is an opportunity for the federal, provincial and territorial governments to work together to transition the sector to be a real player in the circular bioeconomy, supporting workers and making our forest-dependent communities more resilient. The Government of Canada and provincial governments continue to work together with forest sector stakeholders to ensure that support measures for workers, communities and industry are aligned, fully utilized, and that gaps are identified and bridged.

In closing, while the sector faces numerous challenges with significant cumulative effects, the sector also faces numerous opportunities. Canada has the fibre, environmental reputation and the ingenuity to be one of the most competitive forest sectors in the world, and a leader in nature-based solutions and the emerging circular bioeconomy.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you very much, Ms. MacNeil.

Mr. Melillo, I believe you're going to start us off.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to both of our witnesses for being here today to answer our questions as we start this important study.

I'd like to start with something that I think is on all of our minds right now, and that's the recent rail blockades we've been seeing across the country. Could you provide some information on the economic impact that has had on the sector?

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources

Beth MacNeil

Yes, you're right. We were tracking this on a daily basis—the impact on each of our natural resource sectors—working closely with the Forest Products Association of Canada. I'll ask Jeff if he can speak to the dollar amount, but there was a significant financial impact to some of our mills, both to pulp and paper mills and to lumberyards across the country.

3:40 p.m.

Jeff Waring Director General, Trade, Economics and Industry Branch, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources

In terms of the impact on the mills themselves, there was one mill that ended up shutting down in Quebec, one of the Resolute company's. In addition, what we heard was a number of anecdotal pieces of information from mills indicating that when the trains were coming up there weren't any empty cars that were available to them.

This was creating a concern about inventory. They need to be able to move their inventory in order to make use of it. There were other examples such as that, but it was only the one mill we're aware of that ended up having to curtail production temporarily.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON

Okay. You can't really put a dollar figure on it at this point. Am I correct in saying that?

3:40 p.m.

Director General, Trade, Economics and Industry Branch, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources

Jeff Waring

Not at this point, no.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON

Okay.

In terms of data, as I understand it, some of the most recent Natural Resources Canada data is from 2017 for the forest sector, but economic circumstances have been changing, whether it's with softwood disputes or many different factors. I've seen that in my own riding, with the closure of Kenora Forest Products. I am wondering if you have any more recent data, particularly for mill closures.

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources

Beth MacNeil

At NRCan, we track on a daily and weekly basis with our network across the country. I don't have the stats in front of me, but we have I believe six or seven mill closures in British Columbia, affecting approximately 10,500 employees. With Northern Pulp, in Nova Scotia, there will be a significant impact along the integrated value chain there. We can certainly get back to the committee with the details of all the mills with both temporary and permanent curtailments that have occurred coast to coast.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON

I think it would be great so that we could get the committee to understand that and have it in front of them. If I could ask a follow-up to that, do you have any information—again, maybe not in front of you—in terms of gross domestic product, with the exports specifically?

3:40 p.m.

Director General, Trade, Economics and Industry Branch, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources

Jeff Waring

The latest information we have on GDP and exports is from 2018, so it is still a bit dated. What we do is update this information on an annual basis. For 2020, this year, we'll be looking to update the information for 2019.

For 2018, though, gross domestic product came in at $25.8 billion. In terms of exports, there was $33 billion in exports, which represents about 6% of Canada's total export capacity.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON

Thank you.

I'll change gears slightly here to something that I've been hearing a lot about in my riding in meetings with different stakeholders, and that is the government's current plan to prohibit development of 25% of Canada's land by 2025.

Previously, I asked the Minister of Natural Resources if he could confirm whether or not this plan is going to impact areas that are accessible for forest harvest. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get an answer, so I will ask if it's possible that you can confirm that.

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources

Beth MacNeil

As you know, the mandate letter commitment belongs to Minister Wilkinson of Environment and Climate Change Canada. I would leave it to my colleagues at Environment and Climate Change Canada to appear and to answer the question as to how they'll roll out the implementation plan to achieve 25% protected areas by 2025.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON

Okay, but is NRCan doing any economic analysis on any of those proposed lands at this point?

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources

Beth MacNeil

For sure. I would say that a good example of that is the work we've done both on protected spaces and on species in British Columbia. Because we have the industry intelligence in the relationship with the industry in all parts of the country, our economic analysis division really works hand in glove with Environment and Climate Change Canada to get a very good assessment on what the impacts will be on the sector at the worker, community and industry levels when something is proposed.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON

Okay. Thank you.

Is that information that it also would be able to share with the committee members?

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources

Beth MacNeil

Not at this time.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON

Okay.

I will stick with the trees and the environmental theme I have here with regard to the two-billion-tree promise. One question we have been hearing very often is whether there has been an analysis of whether any of these trees will be included in the allowable cut.

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources

Beth MacNeil

That's a good question. As you know, first of all, we're doing our own analysis of what it would take to operationalize two billion trees. It is incremental, so that would be over and above the existing forest cover that exists in Canada today.

I would say that Canada is a world leader in the sustainable management of our forests. If it happens to be in areas that have been disturbed by wildland fire, or pests such as the mountain pine beetle, for instance, it would qualify as incremental because, in Canada, if you cut a tree, if you harvest a tree, you have to replace it, but not if it's destroyed by insects or by fire. Sixty or 70 years down the road, there may be a harvesting, and by law there would be a renewal of that tree that was cut.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Mr. Weiler.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you both, Ms. MacNeil and Mr. Waring, for coming to speak to our committee today.

As a member of Parliament from British Columbia who has a significant forestry sector in my riding, including a mill, I can say that the challenges facing this sector are definitely top of mind for my constituents. I know many of the co-indicated ministers have been in regular contact with their provincial counterparts, including Minister Wilkinson, Minister Ng, Minister Qualtrough and Minister O'Regan.

Can you share with the committee what efforts are being made at your level to keep the lines of communication open with provincial jurisdictions that are seeing challenges in this sector? I was hoping you could speak a little bit to the specific challenges facing the coastal forestry sector in British Columbia.

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Canadian Forest Service, Department of Natural Resources

Beth MacNeil

Mr. Chair, beginning in January, I struck a committee at the assistant deputy minister level, and I have both federal participants and provincial counterparts on that committee.

The scope of the work is to identify what currently exists in federal and provincial programming, again through the lens of workers, community and industry—the firm—and where there may be gaps. That work is under way now. We have a list of gaps, and it's going to be prioritized by our provincial counterparts. We will be making a progress report to Minister Donaldson of British Columbia and Minister O'Regan. in early April.

As for the coastal revitalization strategy, I know, first of all, that the strike that was quite prolonged on the B.C. coast is over. It has ended, and the coastal revitalization strategy of the B.C. government is under way now.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Great. Thank you.

With several first nations in my riding closely involved in the forestry sector, I know that the indigenous forestry initiative is a unique funding stream offered by NRCan.

Could you speak more to some of the outcomes, particularly with regard to the program, its uptake, and interest by indigenous communities? Could you provide some examples of some of the transformations that have been made as a result of this program?