Natural Resources Committee on March 11th, 2020

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

There is lots I could say. Certainly we want to know more about programs that are oversubscribed right now, given the crisis we're experiencing in British Columbia. We're hoping that the federal government will beef up those programs and that you're identifying that need to Ottawa, especially with the budget and now that we have the coronavirus hitting us and the impact it's having.

We've had a bill by my colleague on dimensional lumber and the focus on that.

We have proposals, such as for a floating dry dock in Port Alberni, that we'd like to see built to help diversify our economy, to build more resiliency. Are these kinds of opportunities the things you'd like this committee and MPs to be bringing to your attention?

Maybe you could speak about how this committee can best help.

[Gerry Salembier]

Absolutely, those are the kinds of projects we like to hear about.

We are oversubscribed. WD is traditionally eight to ten times oversubscribed—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

—eight to ten times—

[Gerry Salembier]

—so about eight or nine of every ten people who come to our door we end up not being able to assist.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

It sounds as though this would be a good time to have ten times more funding.

The other thing, just before we go, is that I hope you are working with the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Labour to get some extended EI to these workers and their families. This is the time we need their help.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I'm going to have to stop you there, Mr. Johns. I'm sorry.

Thank you. We're going to have to stop there.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I'm getting dirty looks from other members of the committee when I give extra time. Being generous doesn't always pay off.

Ms. McLeod, we'll go over to you.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

I want to pick up on something Madame Brassard said, where part of your role is to help communities and help them diversify. It's not just about businesses and where they go next.

Eventually I'm going to have a question for Mr. Maillet, but I do want to note that, within Western Economic Diversification, we did an analysis of where the money went over the last four years. Almost all of it...out of $400 million I think $350 million went to Vancouver and Victoria. I would suggest that Vancouver and Victoria are quite well poised. They are very diversified and they do very well, whereas we have communities that Mr. Johns talked about in the interior where I think we could do with a lot more support.

In Nova Scotia, the closure there was very difficult. Do you see your role as having someone on the ground to say, “How can we help, and where might we look toward supporting you as a community in terms of your next steps?” because I'm sure the community is reeling there and they are trying to figure out a future?

I would like to hear about your process, and is that within your mandate? Hopefully, Mr. Gerry Salembier can talk after.

[Chuck Maillet]

Yes, we do see that as part of our role and part of our mandate with the closure of Northern Pulp having a significant impact both on the province of Nova Scotia and other parts of Atlantic Canada. We are fully engaged with our key partners at the Province of Nova Scotia and with members of the industry, looking primarily at the supply chain companies but also at broader community impacts, and working to explore how we can mitigate the impacts and derive more value from the fibre.

It doesn't always involve us funding projects. Sometimes it's convening. It's working with our key partners and coming to solutions to address the specific challenges faced by the closure of that mill.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

So you don't do that through a community futures system. You do it through ACOA and your staff at ACOA.

[Chuck Maillet]

Yes. We do a little bit of both. At the Community Futures network, they do support forestry companies as well, but from ACOA's point of view, we will look at supply chain opportunities, supply chain companies, so we will use our tools as well if that fits within the program parameters in addition to working with the CF network.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I'm sure it is a very tough time in your province right now.

Can you speak to the whole role in communities? Certainly, from my perspective, we looked at the significant dollars that went into big cities where they were doing quite well, and we didn't feel the support that I had perhaps hoped to feel, with the significant closures in the interior of British Columbia.

[Gerry Salembier]

As I said, we support those Community Futures organizations. Our spending on that represents something in the order of just shy of 14% of our overall budget. There's an additional 14% of our overall project funding that has gone to rural as opposed to urban communities. Are we there with enough? I would have to agree that we are probably not there, but it is definitely a focus.

I can give you a few examples of projects we have funded, which do not, in fact, deal with Vancouver and Victoria. The Community Futures organizations, for example, don't cover Vancouver or Victoria, right?

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

No, I recognize that.

[Gerry Salembier]

We have also funded, through FPInnovations, as my colleague from CED-Q has mentioned, a series of indigenous forestry training projects, and they fan out across the province in order to help indigenous businesses in the forest sector adapt to market conditions, introduce new technologies and new techniques, shape up their business plans and acquire access to capital. That has been going on for eight or 10 years now.

We have also funded training projects with colleges and institutes in places like the Nicola Valley Institute of Technology, just south of your riding, with a mobile trades training facility, which takes training for tradespeople, including those in the foreign sector, everywhere in the province in these mobile vans with simulators. It's a great way for people in small communities, for whom moving to larger communities can be quite disruptive, to get access to training.

We have funded similar projects with the Coast Mountain College in Terrace and with Vancouver Island University in Nanaimo.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Ms. Jones, for five minutes, and then we're going to adjourn.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all of our panellists today.

From the perspective of an MP who lives in a northern rural region, I really appreciate the work that economic diversification projects do in Canada and how you work with communities and stakeholders. It has definitely been one of the more successful programs we've seen offered in rural Canada in the time I've been involved, so thank you for that.

My questions are going to be focused more on the Atlantic region, so thank you, Mr. Maillet, for joining us today.

We did talk about softwood lumber a bit and the aid package the Government of Canada put in place, the $867 million. I want to indicate that it's not administered through the development corporations or the diversification agencies, but it has been a critical piece in addressing the forestry needs and gaps that are there. In budget 2019, the government allocated $250 million over the next three years to be focused on projects within the forestry sector. I'm not sure if your agencies are a part of delivering any of that particular funding. If so, I'd like to hear about it.

My question is regarding the Atlantic region. Is there targeted funding under ACOA that is designed for the forestry sector? Is there a specific targeted pot of money you can access to respond to the needs of what you're seeing in Nova Scotia right now with Northern Pulp? That would be my first question.

Secondly, under the agency itself, are there any programs that are specifically designed for targeted industries? If not, how do you weigh out how investments are made in each of the sectors?

[Chuck Maillet]

In regard to partnering with some of the national envelopes, whether it's SLAP, the softwood lumber action plan, or more particularly, the one you referenced, the new program with NRCan, IFIT, we are working with NRCan and sharing information. We will not be delivering any of that money for them. That will be administered by our colleagues at NRCan. However, we will be working with them in identifying potential opportunities that could be supported through that national program.

With regard to the question on forestry per se, we do not target allocations by sector. We work on a continuous intake basis, where we have multiple points of contact throughout Atlantic Canada. We evaluate projects as they come in based on a number of factors, including the potential for economic impact, the capacity of the proponent to deliver, and how this will meet our mandate of enhancing economic outcomes for Atlantic Canadians. We do that in a number of areas and sectors, but we don't have a targeted envelope for any one sector per se.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

We heard from your colleagues in the other regions today that the ask on funding is often far greater than allowed by the budgets. Is that the same in the Atlantic region?

Also—and maybe all of you could answer this question—should the Government of Canada be looking at targeted funding in certain sectors, or do you see your role, as a diversification agency, as having more flexibility in responding to crises in resource sector industries when they occur? We're talking about forestry today. We've seen it as well in the fishery. We've seen it in other aspects of agriculture, and we've seen it in tourism.

Should we be looking at taking a different direction in how we fund your agencies for you to better respond to emergencies and crises in resource sector industries?

[Chuck Maillet]

We allocate our full budget every year, and that's in a combination of commercial and non-commercial projects. We currently work with the forestry industry. We're working with a number of stakeholders, supply chain companies, etc., which are looking at a variety of projects. If all of these projects all come to fruition and they're all supportable by the Government of Canada, that would certainly put more pressure on our resources.

As for your question on targeted versus more flexible funding, from the RDAs' point of view and ACOA's point of view, we see the ability to be flexible in responding to emerging needs as the strength of the model. We may have a crisis in one sector today and we can put all hands on deck and mobilize our resources.

That could be different in a short period of time. As opposed to having envelopes in specific areas or specific sectors, I think having flexibility allows us to address opportunities as they present themselves.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

All right, we're going to have to stop there.

We're out of time, Mr. Simard.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I want to say that it would be helpful if everyone could respect the time allotted so that we can ask questions in the second round. For the last two comments, we didn't have enough time.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Simard, that's a valid point.

I think you will see over time that I'm flexible. If somebody has asked a question and the witnesses is in the middle of an answer, I'll let them finish.

Where I will stop you is when you're trying to ask a new question with five seconds left on your time. If you look at the time that each member has been given, it comes out pretty even. Today would be a good example of that.

I hear what you're saying, but it tends to work out. As it turns out, today we've gone long.... We wouldn't have reached your next segment under any circumstances.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I just don't want that flexibility to come at my expense. I know that we must give the witnesses time to answer questions. However, for the last two comments in the second round, neither one of us had the opportunity to speak.