Evidence of meeting #12 for Natural Resources in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
What I gather from Mr. Lalonde's answer, and perhaps from Mr. Gratton's, is that we have to create a demand for these critical minerals.
My impression is that a lot of that demand will come from electrifying transportation. In that sense, if we want to create demand and support the electrification of transportation, I feel that putting a price on carbon is a very good thing. We would have transportation options with low greenhouse gas emissions.
Mr. Gratton and Mr. Labonté, can you tell me whether those are helpful strategies?
First, carbon pricing, and second, the way in which the government could go about accelerating the electrification of transportation, thereby creating a more worthwhile ecosystem for the critical minerals.
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Critical Minerals and Materials Alliance
I'm not sure who the question is directed to.
4:10 p.m.
Brendan Marshall Vice-President, Economic and Northern Affairs, Mining Association of Canada
I can speak to that very briefly.
As Pierre mentioned, the association does support carbon pricing. What we're trying to do is effect behavioural change and incentivize the appropriate behaviours on the basis of a carbon price. At the end of the day, we also need to be sensitive that a one-size-fits-all solution isn't apportioned equally in all shapes and sizes. We are carbon-vulnerable in remote and northern regions in this country. As we approach a higher threshold of carbon costs, we're going to need a managed transition to a lower-carbon reality for some of these off-grid sites.
If we want to grow the critical mineral supply chain, then there are many things we can do. I'll speak to that in one moment. We cannot lose sight of or take for granted the pre-existing world-class critical mineral supply chain that already exists in Canada—in Quebec, Ontario, in other provinces and the north.
The next part of your question also speaks to a question that Mr. Lefebvre had: What gaps need to be filled here? I think it would be a false impression for this committee to take away that a critical mineral supply chain and a battery electric vehicle supply chain are one and the same thing. They overlap, but the reality is they are also very different. Some critical minerals don't go into batteries, but they do go into electric vehicles. Some critical minerals go into computer chips that electric vehicles can't work without, but they're not in the battery themselves.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
I hate to do this, but I'm going to have to interrupt and stop you. Mr. Simard is beyond his time.
I'll move on to Mr. Cannings for two and a half minutes.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC
Thank you.
I'd like to talk about recycling, as briefly as I can. The recycling of these new batteries is often brought up as a challenge. I wonder if perhaps Mr. Labonté or someone can comment on the opportunities that are there for recycling.
Again, I have a recycling company in Trail, one of the companies surrounding the smelter. I think it's the only company in the world that will recycle basically any battery in the world, including pure lithium batteries. I'm wondering what opportunities Canadian companies have in that sphere.
4:10 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Minerals Sector, Department of Natural Resources
It's a terrific question.
The issue here is about creating a circular economy. Many of the minerals, critical minerals and metals that we have and need, will come in a circular economy. A metal can be used almost endlessly, as it begins and ends its life in different products and forms.
We're looking at a number of instruments and certainly a number of places. We're doing research on extracting from existing streams and looking at some of those streams as being recycling.
There's the regulatory context of the recycling regulations that exist across the country. They are different in different places, for different materials. In some instances, the drive behind those regimes has often been waste reduction, to reduce the amount and volume of waste, rather than extracting a value from the waste. Some of this is about turning around the purpose for the recycling, and of course having a dual interest. Less metal requirement from a demand point of view will also lessen the amount of waste that's produced if it's drawn from recycling sources and purposes.
There is a manner in which we can work together and think that through a little more closely. One of the topics we're working on with our provincial and territorial colleagues is about exploring and understanding where that value can be extracted from recycling activities.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Thanks, Mr. Cannings.
We're going to go to Mr. Zimmer, and then we are going to finish up with Mr. Sidhu.
Mr. Zimmer, you have the floor for five minutes.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you all for your testimonies today.
I have a question, a bit of a different take on it, I suppose. I think Mr. Lloyd alluded to this too, about how governments can kneecap industry and make it so difficult to operate with timelines of approval, etc. It becomes very vulnerable to takeovers. Many of you have seen the recent attempt at a takeover, but blocked by this government, which I give them kudos for doing. Everybody knows the TMAC Resources Hope Bay situation.
Mr. Gratton, what would you do to best ensure that our resources aren't put at risk by some of these situations?
I see some of the way this government has kneecapped the resource sector; it makes it—
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Mr. Zimmer, I apologize for interrupting, but apparently your mike needs to be moved a little closer to your mouth.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
I'll just get to the question, Mr. Gratton. You've heard the principle of what I was saying, especially with regard to the concern. Everybody understands the need for capital, especially in mining. We get that. I'm in northern B.C. and I understand that, but especially when we see a Chinese takeover, when the Chinese.... There are some concerns around their actions of late in that they put our resources at risk.
Anyway, go ahead and answer, please.
4:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
Our sector has a complicated relationship with China. They're the largest consumer of minerals and metals. Our industry is enjoying buoyant commodity prices more or less across the board right now, and it's largely because China's economy has rebounded, but it's also true that they don't play by our rules when it comes to investing in the mining business.
They're not a market-based economy. They're state-run enterprises and they invest for strategic reasons. We have members that compete with them around the world, and it's hard to compete with them. I've heard many stories from many of our members of just how tricky that is, because in other parts of the world it's a government-to-government relationship that they engage in, whereas we're the private sector trying to compete using private sector rules. It's difficult—
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Gratton. It's good to have you here, especially with your expertise.
How do we look at the positive side of this? How do we strengthen our mining sector, I guess, without saying that we're protecting the industry? We want to compete with nations around the globe. How do we positively strengthen our industry without subsidizing it? How do we strengthen it so that, again, our industry isn't vulnerable to these kinds of actions?
4:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
I guess this goes to one of the core questions that this study is about. How do we create the North American demand for these products? What is the downstream pull that we can create so that it is more viable than going to China for these products? The automotive sector and the battery strategy are part of it, but as we've also heard, that's not the only part.
What are the different things we can do? There are offtake agreements that can be negotiated between mines and downstream users of those products. There's the support we've seen that's starting to flow from governments to help a cobalt refinery relaunch, and once it's up and running, the market conditions can then take over.
We may need some seed funding. We talked in our presentation about the importance of pilot projects and then helping them to commercialize. Once they're up and running, the market forces will take over, but we need to create that internal North American demand, supported as well by European demand. This is a geopolitical issue that is taking shape faster than I think many of us realize. We need to be really laser-focused on it.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC
It concerns how we see them as well, Mr. Gratton, from my side of the fence, but hopefully we can do some things to make us players in the game again, where we don't need to worry about these takeovers.
Thank you.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Thank you, Mr. Zimmer.
Mr. Sidhu, you are last but not least today. You have the floor for five minutes.
February 19th, 2021 / 4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses for hanging here with us today on this beautiful Friday afternoon.
My first question is, how can we ensure that critical mineral processing and manufacturing capacity is increased within Canada? I'd like to hear from PDAC first.
4:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada
On the processing and manufacturing, I really don't think it's a good use of our limited time here for me to speak to that. I think I'm going to pass it over to Mr. London, if you're okay with that.
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Critical Minerals and Materials Alliance
Two things have happened recently in the U.S. I'm sure you've been appropriately briefed, or you will be. One is the contemplation of the GREEN Act, where the Trump administration put caps on the number of electric vehicles that could be produced in the U.S. by each manufacturer. That has been tripled in the last little while.
How do you encourage more electric vehicles? How do we put in requirements by the manufacturers of the vehicles? We put a lot of money into General Motors, the Oakville plants and all of this. On Canadian content rules, there are ways of doing it. The Europeans are very interested in Canadian minerals. They're just as interested in processing them. I suggest we don't get too engaged in selling them or providing them with just pure raw materials. How do we value-add to it? We can do that through these trade agreements, and branding Canada's product as cleaner and more transparent in terms of traceability, provenance and so on. There are a number of ways for Canada to be at the table on standards and on metallurgy.
I want to compliment the folks around the table. It's not just batteries. It's also the light weight in materials. If we can take 500 pounds off the weight of that car, we can carry that battery. There are a number of these things. We have different kinds of wiring in vehicles. We have the manufacturing base. Jaguar already makes an all-electric vehicle. It's actually built by Magna in Austria. We shouldn't kid ourselves about advancing technologies. How do we engage those end-users? They will create demand and they have the pull on the supply chain. It will make it easier to finance some of the mining projects.
My last comment—I appreciate having this time—is about demand pull versus supply push. We need to create that. As such, if you look at demand pull, no disrespect to all my colleagues who come out of that world, but this is not necessarily a mining initiative. It's not just mining. It's that whole industrialization that we're talking about. We should not lose sight of that fact.