Natural Resources Committee on March 8th, 2021

[Dr. Nigel Steward]

Sometimes we can find them in the tailings themselves, but more often what we find is that they separate at and become available in the processing of the core mineral that we're trying to extract. For example, you might have a liquor at some point in your process that contains a high amount of gallium or a high amount of scandium. This is what we're doing, for example, in the case of scandium in Rio Tinto Fer et Titane in Sorel-Tracy. It's there in solution in one part of our process, and we're extracting it rather than sending it out to a tailings facility.

Similarly, we can find, in the extraction of aluminum bauxite in our aluminum business in what we call the Bayer liquor.... After we've dissolved all of the alumina into the liquor, we can pick up gallium and vanadium, for example, that are co-dissolved at the same time. We can put processes in place to extract the material then.

We're doing some other things. For example, in the United States in copper at our facility in Salt Lake City, Rio Tinto Kennecott, we're looking at extracting things like rhenium and tellurian above all of the other things that we extract there. Not only do they extract copper, for example, from that ore body, but they also extract gold, silver, molybdenum and lead. It's looking at what more we can extract within our existing processes, rather than sending all of those elements to tailings.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

That's very interesting.

As the second-largest mining company in the world, do you find a similar process happening at Rio Tinto in all of the countries that it operates in, to be able to extract some of these rare earth elements from existing operations?

[Dr. Nigel Steward]

I think we're leading the way in leading the conversation on this at the moment, but increasingly it's getting attention and for good reason. I think we'll see more and more people doing it.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

You mentioned earlier your project to extract scandium in Quebec. You mentioned that this would be 20% of the world's supply of this. Do you find that for these operations and other operations for rare earth elements that you have that demand really driving this?

What are some of the main drivers to look at some of these new projects you're working on?

[Dr. Nigel Steward]

At the end of the day it is demand, encouraging the demand for the projects. That's absolutely key. Without demand we won't be extracting these materials. We need to be very cognizant of what's happening in the world, where new applications are coming in place and where future applications might come into play so that we can start to serve those markets going forward.

For us, it's really all about the demand and what society will need for the future to create a greener and more sustainable future for us as a society.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you for that.

My next question is for the grand chief. You mentioned that the Cree nations have put together a specific environmental assessment process, and you've been able to apply for different natural resource developments within your territories. I was hoping you could speak to how that process works at a high level.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You have about 30 seconds to answer that question.

[Grand Chief Abel Bosum]

In the James Bay agreement, section 22 deals with the environmental impact assessment process that involves Quebec, Canada and the Cree in the process. It has a pretty rigorous consultation process. Any project that goes through that is dealt with by the people in the community. They have a chance not only to hear about it but also to recommend ways to improve it if they feel that the project will have a negative impact on the environment. The objective is not only to get approval from an environmental and economic perspective but also to obtain social acceptability by the people.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you very much.

Thanks, Mr. Weiler.

We will go over to Mr. Simard.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a question for Mr. Steward. However, before I continue, I want to make sure that the interpretation services are working and that he can hear me.

[Dr. Nigel Steward]

I understand French, Mr. Simard.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

That's great.

I live a stone's throw from the plant in Arvida, the town next door. My father spent his life there before the Rio Tinto takeover. I know a little about aluminum production, because it's a fairly significant sector in my region.

In your presentation, you spoke about value-added mining. That's an important factor. A number of stakeholders have told us that the key factor for critical minerals is the value chain. You want to be able to do secondary and tertiary processing. It would be unfortunate if the primary resources were extracted and sent to China and if China were the one to create the jobs.

I have a small concern because, for the past 30 years, we've been talking about secondary and tertiary aluminum processing. However, Rio Tinto has never made a firm commitment in this area. On the contrary, Rio Tinto has backed away from it. It had a rolling mill, which is now gone. Rio Tinto has backed away from secondary processing. It's currently just producing primary aluminum without supporting the cluster. I find that troubling.

I want to know how you can ensure that you'll fulfill the commitment to value-added mining. How can you ensure that you'll support the secondary and tertiary processing of critical minerals in Quebec?

[Dr. Nigel Steward]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Simard.

We do the processing in our aluminum smelters, because we manufacture high value-added products such as extrusion billets and rolling ingots. Unfortunately, in the industry, this type of activity must be carried out close to the customers. All our customers are located mainly in the American Midwest and around Toronto. The processing is done in these areas.

Take scandium, for example. It was created in Sorel-Tracy, but we turned it into a value-added product at the Dubuc plant in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean. That's where we created the master alloy, a high value-added product sold on the market.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I kept a close eye on this, Mr. Steward. I'm aware of this.

I understand that the processing is mainly done in the United States. Unfortunately, that's partly because our processors must pay the Midwest premium as well. On that note, I believe that Rio Tinto could play a role, at the very least, in lowering the premium and giving a boost to Quebec processors so that they can do secondary and tertiary processing.

Have you given any thought to this approach?

[Dr. Nigel Steward]

In my opinion, it's the nature of the industry. We need to deal with it.

One thing that we're doing is investing in the primary industry. Take ELYSIS, for example. It's the first facility of its kind in the world. We're setting up the facility in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean. Last week, we started the next tank for ELYSIS. It's a key part of the aluminum industry.

The project is supported by the governments of Canada and Quebec, as you know. We're working on the project in partnership with Alcoa and Alco. The project is meaningful for the raw materials industry.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you.

I have a question for Grand Chief Abel Bosum, whose presentation I appreciated earlier.

We often forget that indigenous peoples have a great deal to teach us about the environment. You referred to the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement. We also could have talked about the peace of the braves agreement, which created an ecosystem for development in partnership with the Quebec government. You also spoke about five major lithium projects. I've seen the Quebec plan for the development of critical and strategic minerals, in which the government planned to invest $90 million from 2020 to 2025.

In your opinion, how could the federal government make these five major projects a reality? Thank you.

[Grand Chief Abel Bosum]

That would be money, of course, certainly. In dealing with these five companies, we've established good co-operation with the people who are occupying the land. That's really important. When we talk about Cree rights, those are the people we're referring to. They have a lot to say in the process. When they get involved right at the beginning of a process, even at the exploration stage, they learn about the exploration activities. Most of the time they make a contribution by sharing the knowledge they have about the land. You build this trust, at a very early stage in the process, between the people who are occupying the land, the leadership and the industry. This is certainly what has worked for us.

We are now sitting down with the Government of Quebec on trying to design the—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Chief, I apologize, but I have to interrupt. We're over time already. We have to move on.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you for your response.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Maybe you can come back to that in the next round.

Mr. Cannings, we'll go over to you.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I'd like to thank the witnesses today.

Grand Chief Bosum, I'd like to give you a chance to continue on in that vein, but in particular, I'm interested in hearing your comments on the impact assessment process you've developed in the Cree agreement. I guess that dates back to the James Bay agreement. I know that my former colleague Romeo Saganash was involved with that for many years.

Perhaps you could tell us more about that impact assessment process, maybe with some comment on what Professor Coates was talking about—how some of these impact assessment processes go on needlessly and take too long. Is there some sense that your process in the James Bay area is more.... I don't want to say “streamlined”, but does it save time to speak to the people on the land, or...?

I'll let you answer that. Then I'll probably have some follow-up questions.

Thank you.

[Grand Chief Abel Bosum]

Thank you very much, Mr. Cannings.

Just to continue, what I was about to say was that recently we signed the memorandum of understanding with Mr. Legault with the objective of trying to balance resource development with some of the traditional Cree concerns related to the environment and lands. Of course, the question is always how you facilitate development in the territory.

What we must understand is that the land and environment are central to Cree people and perhaps indigenous people right across Canada. When we begin discussions, we find that it is always important to talk about the land and environment first. That is one of the reasons that in the memorandum of understanding you will see that our objective was to negotiate protected areas. Once we can identify these and protect them, then it's easier to look at the infrastructure for resource development and, therefore, minimize the impact of resource development regardless of what it may be.

This is really a change in the way that we've been doing things. In the past, we've always been reacting to development. It comes to our door, and then we have to react. The MOU we're looking at is really the design for what northern Quebec could look like over the next 30 years with the Cree people being active participants in it.

While at the moment we're carrying out feasibility studies on the various types of infrastructure needs, both for industry and for our communities, at some point there will be a project. I don't know what kind of project, but once it's defined as a project, then it is subject to the environmental impact assessment. Usually, if the project has been dealt with at the community level for some time, and people understand the project and accept the project, then of course the environmental impact technical process is a little easier to do because the industry leader has reached an agreement with the community or the nation so that there is acceptability.

The regime that we have in section 22 really helps not only with the process for the project but also with defining the project to allow the Cree to participate if there are ways to improve it or to minimize the impact. At the end of the day, it's a win-win for the Cree people, the industries and the governments.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I think I'll move to Professor Coates.

I'll just follow up on that and talk about your comments regarding how impact assessments involve too long a process without adding value.

These processes, I would say, are probably in reaction to past disasters. We think of the Giant Mine, which was in the news recently. There are other examples of cleanups in the north, especially in Faro.

Can you just comment on how you see improving that process so there is confidence? We have governments that want to create jobs. We have mining companies that want to make money. How do we create that confidence in the public that those concerns are being met, those impacts are being met? Why were we failing in the past?

[Dr. Ken S. Coates]

You're absolutely right about the historical memory. The indigenous communities remember the very serious problems in the past.

How do you get ahead of this?

I think the grand chief has described something really important. Start the process really early on. In fact, we put a lot of the burden on the mining companies. Governments can play a major role in sort of going through northern Quebec, Yukon or parts of northern Saskatchewan, reviewing the landscape ahead of time and figuring out where those no-go zones are. There are places that are culturally important, that are critical for harvesting. There's not going to be mining in those locations, places like the Peel River. There are proposals for mining in the Peel River valley. It took decades to figure out that you couldn't go there.

You could actually deal with all of that potential conflict up front. Talk ahead of time with the first nations. Find out where the hunting grounds are and where the cultural sites are. Where are the places we should go? Do that work ahead of time so that the mining companies have a clearer tapestry as to where they can actually operate.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you, Professor. I'm going to have to interrupt you and stop you there.

We're into the five-minute rounds now, starting with Mr. Zimmer.