Natural Resources Committee on May 10th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Are you talking through your headset now? I'm hearing you loud and clear.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

No. It's not connected. I'm on my iPhone. It's fine, but I don't think it will work for translation.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I don't think so either.

Madam Clerk, can you just verify that?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Hilary Jane Powell]

Ms. Jones, can I ask you to say a few more words? We'll see if interpretation is able to hear you or not.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Okay. Great.

I'm connected remotely from Labrador west today. We have IT issues in our office. Welcome to the world of technology. I was hoping to be able to participate—

[The Clerk]

You can.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

That works?

[The Clerk]

Yes. The interpreters have told me that they can make do.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

All right.

Ms. Jones, you're on for six minutes.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Wonderful. Thank you very much.

First of all, Ms. Johnson and Mr. Mercer, I would like to welcome you to committee today. It's great to have you both here. I know how difficult this past year has been for the industry. I really want to compliment you on the stellar job you've been doing in keeping the industry going in Newfoundland and Labrador, but most of all for supporting so many workers who have been affected by COVID.

I have just a couple of questions. First of all, with regard to the bill, is there anything in this bill that is of tremendous concern to you that you want to make us aware of up front?

Ms. Johnson, I'm wondering if you can clarify for the committee what the jurisdictional issue is with regard to offshore oil and gas exploration and development in Newfoundland and Labrador—whether it's federal and provincial as equal partners or whether either of those partners can act unilaterally in doing what needs to be done within the industry.

I'll leave it at those two questions, Mr. Chair. If there's enough time, I do have some others.

[Charlene Johnson]

I guess the general concern with this bill is that it isn't done yet. In terms of the specific issues, the list is dozens of pages long. I'm not an expert in the specific areas. You'll probably be hearing from the Atlantic director of CAPP, Paul Barnes. The type of feedback that comes to us from our members is around lifeboats, diving, accommodation quarters, lifting of materials on cranes and documentation. It's all-encompassing. As I mentioned, they are already in place. The operators have to abide by the transitional regulations that were in place, but it's just getting this over the finish line to the end-point.

With regard to your question, Ms. Jones, I think you were asking if this can be done unilaterally. My understanding is that it cannot. This is a joint process between the province and the federal government as per the Atlantic Accord act.

Did you have something more specific than that? I'm not sure if I answered your question.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Does this lend itself to two layers of approvals that would have to occur, and is it a more time-consuming and more expensive process? That's one question. As well, how has COVID-19, especially in the early days, affected the industry from an administrative and technical work front? I know there's been difficulty. You spoke about it publicly early on.

[Charlene Johnson]

Yes, my understanding of the way the process works is that the federal government is doing all of the drafting of the regulations, and it is keeping the province informed. My understanding is that there is some consideration for allowing the general public and the province and associations like ourselves to see the draft at the same time. I'm not sure if that is the case. I know that's one of the things being considered by the department to streamline and speed up this process so we can get it done in a year.

As for COVID and its impacts, Dave, you might be able to speak to this more. We've seen, as with everyone and every industry, that many people are pivoting in different ways and it's really advancing things by years that we didn't know could have been done before. There are some great examples because companies have already been focusing on digitalization and moving staff onshore who used to have to be offshore. You may be aware that Exxon have a control centre onshore now. Those are folks who would have had to be offshore before are now home in their beds every night. From the safety perspective, that's positive.

I think some of this got advanced because of COVID. In this sense, some positives come from COVID as well, but just generally, COVID has had a significant impact on our industry because of the reduction in demand for the oil product and then, of course, the resulting reduction in price. I won't get into that here today because that's not about safety, but there's a page long list of deferrals and delays and cancellations that have happened in our offshore that have resulted in the thousands of layoffs Dave referred to in his opening remarks.

Dave, maybe you can get into more specifics about COVID and technology.

[Dave Mercer]

Thank you.

You were doing a wonderful job on it. You can keep going if you like.

Yes, so to add to Charlene's points, I remember starting in Hibernia back in 1997 and I remember the OIM at the time having a meeting with us and saying that in 20 years' time, this facility wouldn't be the way we saw it, because a lot of the work would be done from onshore. He was right. Things have improved and technology has advanced and ExxonMobil has their own CR set-up now in their office, in their building here in St. John's. Yes, people do get to go home at night, but for the most part, many workers still work offshore. Although technology has changed in that way—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I'm going to have to stop you there, Mr. Mercer. I apologize but we have to move to our next questioner.

Mr. Simard, over to you.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Could you tell me how much time I have left, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You have six minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I have a brief question for you, Ms. Johnson.

Does this mean that since December 31, the industry has been regulating itself in matters of health and safety?

Mr. Mercer, my next question is for you. I'd like to understand the distinction between the permanent regulations and what we are presenting as transitional provisions.

Does this mean that the transitional provisions would be inadequate to ensure worker health and safety?

I don't know if you have any specific cases like those. I don't understand why we can't establish permanent regulations. It seems to me that it's taking a long to reach consensus on this matter. Can you explain why?

[Charlene Johnson]

The industry is regulated by the C-NLOPB, who are the ones responsible for issuing that addendum to the operators offshore. My point was that operators are just going to continue with the practices they have as per the transitional regulations. Hence, I wouldn't call if self-regulating. They're still definitely regulated by the C-NLOPB.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

The next question is for Mr. Mercer, but you could answer it too, Ms. Johnson.

I'd like to know what this distinction between transitional provisions and permanent regulations really amounts to.

Does this mean that the transitional provisions are not adequate at the moment to ensure the safety of workers?

[Dave Mercer]

I think there have to be permanent regulations put in place so that we can make amendments to them, going forward. Why should we have temporary regulations in place and never have them put...? This is taking too long. I certainly believe that having permanent regulations in place would help solidify all of these regulations. If we're going to make any amendments to them, at least we have something sound and factual to make them to. Right now, we don't have any permanent regulations in place. Frankly, our workers' lives offshore depend on the occupational health and safety regulations.

[Charlene Johnson]

Further to that, it's about having clarity. In some of the drafts that we've seen to date—and again, CAPP is more the an expert on this—some of the language that is being proposed for the permanent regulations was duplicative and inconsistent with some offshore regulations. It's about fine tuning all of that and getting it right so that there is extra clarity.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Would you be prepared to say that management and the union are part of the consensus on your point of view?

Is there a form of consensus on the safety rules that need to be put in place?

[Charlene Johnson]

On the specific regulations, CAPP was working with the business community, and unions, doctors, offshore workers and offshore health and safety committees. I think each one of those would have responded in their respective areas of expertise. I certainly get the sense that there is a lot of consensus among them. I wouldn't want to speak for everyone, but there's nothing that comes to mind with respect to a regulation where one group is at odds with the other. I think there's full consensus that we need to get this done so that we can have the clarity and the consistency for those who are operating and working in our offshore.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Mercer, did the union make any particular demands with respect to permanent regulations?