Evidence of meeting #111 for Natural Resources in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wells.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Yvonne Jones Liberal Labrador, NL
When we were discussing this earlier, we talked about a number of factors, about the economic benefits this would bring to Canadians, to jobs and to the unions.
Mr. Strickland, when members of the International Union of Operating Engineers came before our committee, they said they were only engaged in this project after the government had purchased TMX. Is that the same experience for your union workers as well, with the building trades?
Executive Director, Canada's Building Trades Unions
Yes, that's right. We weren't involved. The pipeline trades, the operators, the Teamsters, LiUNA and the UA were not engaged early in the process.
For large infrastructure projects, it's much better if building trades are engaged earlier in the process. That would have helped with planning the labour force. It would have helped with planning the availability of the labour force at different times throughout and throughout different locations of the pipeline project. We advocate that all large buyers of construction engage early with contractors and unions so that we can adequately supply the skill-trained labour that the projects require.
Liberal
Yvonne Jones Liberal Labrador, NL
Thank you.
My next question is for Ms. Yedlin again.
You once spoke about the importance of having reliable infrastructure for energy. You disagreed that this project was necessary for us to have that energy security. Let me ask this question: Why was the project not built or approved when it was originally presented under the former Conservative Harper government?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Calgary Chamber of Commerce
The project was filed in 2013. It was recommended by the NEB that it be approved. It was approved by the Prime Minister in 2016. The investment decision was announced in 2017 by Kinder Morgan, and then costs started to escalate because there was unreasonable regulatory risk. That continued to move until the federal government decided.... Kinder Morgan suspended non-essential spending on the project in April 2018. There was too much regulatory uncertainty for them to proceed and to continue to take that risk to get the project done. That's what happened.
Liberal
Yvonne Jones Liberal Labrador, NL
Part of the risk behind this project came from the British Columbia government, which was opposed to it, as well as from other legal action by environmental groups, and you'd be aware of that. One way to reduce that risk and reduce this environmental concern that was being expressed would be to lower the emissions in the oil and gas sector.
Despite that, you oppose the emissions cap. I'm not sure what the other panellists feel about this, and I'd like to know. While the oil and gas sector is increasing its emissions today, do you feel that lowering these emissions in the sector is something that needs to happen and would help reduce the risk of projects being delayed by environmental concerns?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Ms. Yedlin, give a very short answer, if you could, please, because we're at time.
October 23rd, 2024 / 5:30 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Calgary Chamber of Commerce
Emissions intensity per barrel has decreased 23% in the oil sands since 2009. The companies themselves are decreasing emissions. That continues, but I will say this: Bill C-59 is going to compromise their ability to tell you about that because of the disclosure regulations associated with that bill.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Thank you.
We will now go to Mr. Simard for two and a half minutes, please.
Mr. Simard, the floor is yours.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, I was busy with something very important. I was responding to my son.
I have a quick question for you, Ms. Yedlin. Earlier, you responded to a colleague's question about capping emissions, and that piqued my curiosity a little. So here's my question for you. Do you believe that an economy based on carbon-intensive energy sources is as competitive as an economy based on energy sources capable of reducing carbon intensity? I'd like to quickly get your thoughts on that. You'll see why.
You look confused, so let me clarify.
Industrial sectors that consume a lot of energy are currently looking for places where they can access low-carbon energy sources. Germany is one such country, and places that have aluminum smelters and various very heavy industrial processes. I gather those folks don't want to go to Alberta, where there's abundant oil available. If they don't want to go to places where there's carbon-intensive energy, there has to be a reason.
What I'm saying is, I think that, in the long term, we're doing a disservice to Alberta's economy by letting it rely solely on oil, because the demand for that kind of energy may drop one day.
They put $34 billion into a pipeline. Earlier, you said you didn't understand why there would be an emissions cap, since that wouldn't be in Alberta's interest. However, the interests of other parts of Canada, particularly Quebec, may not tie into carbon-intensive energy sources.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Calgary Chamber of Commerce
I would answer your question with the following. We know that the German chancellor was interested in finding ways to source LNG, liquefied natural gas, from Canada to Germany. That was not seen to be a priority.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Calgary Chamber of Commerce
Excuse me?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Calgary Chamber of Commerce
I'll also add that we know that LNG is being asked for. They would like to source it for Asian economies, South Korea and Japan. I would argue that your reasoning, sir, is flawed and that we are moving as an industry. The energy sector is investing. It is the largest investor in clean tech in the country, and moving to decarbonize.
We also know that our LNG should be exported around the world. We know that people are asking for it. The problem is that we don't have the infrastructure. We have one project.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Calgary Chamber of Commerce
Our natural gas gets transported down to the United States, and then it gets exported as LNG.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Thank you, Ms. Yedlin.
We will now go to Mr. Angus for two and a half minutes, please.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I'm just going to follow up on my colleague.
I did meet the German chancellor last year in Berlin. He told us that they were not interested in Canada's LNG at all. He said they wanted to know if Canada could provide them with clean energy, but then he asked us if we had stable, non-conspiracy-driven governments. I was saying, “Well, maybe, but we'll have to see.” However, that's not the reason I'm mentioning this.
Last summer, as 200,000 people fled their homes from climate fires, Rich Kruger, Suncor's CEO, made a statement that there was a state of emergency and that the industry had to make even more money and expand production as people were fleeing. I was thinking, “God, the disconnect.”
This summer, when Jasper burned—what a tragedy—we had Cenovus's CEO, Jon McKenzie, here. I asked him if he believed there was a connection between fossil fuel burning and the climate crisis. He didn't believe there was one. He didn't know. I thought that was wild, given all the lawsuits the industry is facing and all the science.
What I haven't heard from anybody here is a mention of environment or climate obligations. I didn't hear it from our CEOs. You did mention atmospheric rivers and wildfires and how you managed to get past that.
I have a simple question for each of you.
Do you believe there is a direct link between fossil fuel burning and the climate crisis that is hitting our communities across the country?
Mr. Legge, is there a connection?
President, Business Council of Alberta
I think the science is far too difficult to determine, particularly when it comes to forest fires and natural disasters that are—
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Okay, thank you.
Ms. Yedlin, do you believe the science? Is it too difficult for you or do you believe there's a connection?
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Chair, could the witness be allowed to actually finish his comment there? There are facts about the forest fires—