Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 4th, 2024

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I actually care what you have to say.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

What Rachel said is, “Money that should be going”—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Do you believe we should be spending...52% for every barrel of bitumen should be paid by the public and not Cenovus, yes or no?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I don't think that's what's happening, Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Well, that's what the Canadian Energy Regulator told us.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

The reality is that this pipeline, purely as a financial transaction, is of benefit to the people of Canada.

Trevor Tombe, whom I hope we will all agree is a reliable economist—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Okay, but—

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

—has estimated that we'll make $4 billion to $8 billion—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

—is there any pipeline in the world that subsidizes 52% of the cost of every barrel?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I disagree with that assertion.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'm making that up?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

No, but I think it is a misapprehension of the situation.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Okay.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

The Canadian Energy—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

PetroChina has—

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Maybe I can just add one thing, Mr. Angus.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I've given some leeway here. I want to make sure that the interpreters can interpret the conversation and the questions back and forth.

Mr. Angus, if you can ask and then give enough time for an answer, we can go back and forth as much as we like.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Fair play, Mr. Chair. Absolutely.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

That would give the interpreters the ability to interpret.

Thank you.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Absolutely.

Ms. Freeland, PetroChina has just pulled its shipments out of TMX, because they say they're having to pay too much already, as they're paying 48% of the cost of the barrel.

Are you going to make sure that the companies pay the whole shot coming down the pipe, or is it going to be the public who continues to subsidize?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I could not disagree more strongly with the assertions implied in your question. TMX, purely as a financial investment, is delivering value for money for Canadians every single day. This is a profitable, nation-building investment in terms of tax revenues, in terms of jobs—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

But we're subsidizing it at $13 per barrel.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

—and in terms of the actual money we are getting.

I will say that in terms of the tolls, that is a decision for the CER.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Ah. Right.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

We have an arm's-length body that makes those decisions. I think all of us should be building up rather than tearing down national institutions like that.