Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 27th, 2024

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

—such that nothing could actually get built in this country. They lost social licence. They lost the ability to work with indigenous people.

It was this government, through the work that we did very proactively, particularly on the indigenous side, that actually managed to get the Trans Mountain pipeline built, but also major projects across this country.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Except you killed the northern gateway pipeline, which every single impacted indigenous community supported.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I think most folks—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

They had mutual benefit agreements that you took away from them when the Prime Minister vetoed it without any consultation.

Can you at least by now answer the question of how many oil and gas jobs your “one of its kind in the world” production cap kills?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

It's going to create tens of thousands of jobs in Alberta. You will actually see large-scale CCUS projects built in Alberta and operated in Alberta. Methane reduction technologies have already driven significant job growth in Alberta. You will see significant job creation associated with the path.

That is exactly why you hear from workers that they actually think this is a good thing. Rather than letting companies that are making enormous profits simply distribute it back to shareholders—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Minister, you're talking about jobs—

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

—this will actually ensure that they invest it in Canada.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

You're talking about jobs in the future. Since 2015, 300,000 Canadians have already lost their oil and gas jobs because of your policies.

The Conference Board of Canada, S&P Global and Deloitte say your first of its kind in the world cap, not a cause for celebration but instead a cause for caution, will kill between 100,000 and 150,000 jobs over the next 15 years.

I guess the question is simple, then. Do you believe the Conference Board of Canada, S&P Global, Deloitte, the Canadian chambers of commerce and all of the other experts and economists who have come out to say that your oil and gas cap, exactly as you intend it to, will kill hundreds of thousands of jobs? Do you think they're wrong?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I do, actually. First of all, they were basing their analysis on a regulation that didn't even exist.

Second of all, one of the assumptions they made was that oil and gas companies would do nothing to reduce their emissions. The only person in this room or the only people in this room who actually think that's a reasonable thing to say are the climate deniers who maybe sit on the Conservative benches.

Paul, an oil sands worker from Fort McMurray, said, “[The oil and gas companies] are taking our money and bringing it out of province [right now]. All these companies are just raking in the money, taking it away when it can be invested here. If [it's a pollution cap, if] it's carbon capture, there you go, that's an investment. That's more money they can...keep here.”

That is exactly right.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Minister, you mentioned indigenous opportunities and jobs. I certainly have been an advocate, over the past 10 years, since I've been elected, for job opportunities and economic prosperity for indigenous people, reconcili-action, so that they can move from surviving poverty to thriving in prosperity for the benefit of the entire country.

Do you know how many indigenous people are employed in Canada's oil and gas sector?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

There are many, as there are in Canada's mining sector. I would say that's an extremely good thing, but I would say, once again, that we're here because the blockage—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

In fact, indigenous people—

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

—in Parliament to be able to get the supplementary estimates (B) approved means that you're actually looking to kill the indigenous advisory committee, something that has been enormously important for the oil and gas sector. That's something you should reflect on, and so should your leader.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Minister, up to almost 10% of the oil and gas sector jobs are filled by indigenous people. Those are the people most at risk from your anti-energy policies—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Ms. Stubbs, time's up. You'll have to continue that line of questioning in the next round. Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Schiefke.

You have six minutes, sir. The floor is yours.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I'd like to welcome the minister to committee today.

Minister, this is the first time we've had an opportunity to ask you questions in this committee since the U.S. presidential election. With that in mind, I want to ask you about the relationship between Canada and the U.S.

As the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, how would you describe that relationship? More importantly, how are you preparing to protect Canadians?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

The relationship between Canada and the U.S. is obviously an extremely important one, incredibly interconnected and interdependent. That is true in energy, but it's true in autos and it's true in a number of different sectors. It is extremely important that we continue to move forward in a relationship that is mutually beneficial for the United States and for Canada. That is something that we certainly will be discussing with the Trump administration.

Canada supplies incredibly important things in many areas: 60% of the oil imported into the United States comes from Canada; 18 million homes are powered by uranium in nuclear power reactors in the United States; and 85% of the electricity imported by the U.S. comes from Canada. That powers six million homes, including in Boston and New York. There are also the critical minerals. It goes on and on and on.

There's a huge benefit to our continuing to work collaboratively together. There are actually areas where we can better enhance that collaboration for further mutual benefit. That's certainly something that I will be discussing with the nominees of the new president once they are fully in place.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

Something that, as you know, is very important to me and members of our caucus and most members in the House, except for the climate deniers in the Conservative Party, is efforts to fight climate change. A key part of our government's work to fight climate change includes building new renewable energy projects. This is enabled, at least in some part, by the smart renewables and electrification pathways program, something it wholeheartedly supports.

Can you share with this committee and Canadians who are watching what the program does, why it's important and why Conservative members and their leader, in your view, are trying to stop this funding?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

It's an extremely important program. It's both economic and part of the climate plan. It supports the deployment of clean electricity infrastructure, from smart grids to wind turbines and solar panels. It also does energy storage. It provides thousands of good jobs; it provides cheap electricity, and it makes our electricity grids more affordable, reliable and clean.

It is also the case that most of the projects that actually have been undertaken through that program have indigenous ownership of some form, and in many cases it is 100% or the majority, like the Cowessess First Nation in southern Saskatchewan and a whole range of others.

About, I think, 2,700 megawatts of clean power has been deployed through that program, and approximately the same amount of energy storage. It is enabling us to move forward and ensure that we are cleaning our grid, but doing so in a responsible, reliable way that will be affordable for customers going forward.

Again, it is a shame that it is being blocked by the Conservative Party of Canada in terms of money going out to actually build projects in Alberta, Saskatchewan and other parts of the country.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

You spoke about the threats and opportunities associated with climate change. We also know that, as we reduce greenhouse gas emissions, we're already feeling their impact in the form of forest fires and severe droughts, for example.

Can you talk about how the Government of Canada is protecting Canadians from the climate change effects already under way?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Of course, we need to reduce emissions, fight climate change and slow down its effects. In this sense, our plan is working.

We must also adapt to the climate change effects already under way. To this end, we launched the national adaptation strategy, the first of its kind in Canada. This strategy will help us adapt to and mitigate the growing threats of climate change and extreme weather events.

We've also invested over $800 million to fight and prevent forest fires. For example, as part of the WildFireSat mission, satellite images help us spot forest fires, monitor them and fight them more effectively. In Natural Resources Canada's supplementary estimates (B), you'll find $4.5 million to modernize Canada's ground satellite infrastructure, which supports important missions such as the WildFireSat mission. I want to emphasize the need for this funding in the fight against forest fires. It's time for the Conservatives to stop blocking this critical funding.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

I would like to express my sincere gratitude. This funding and program mean a great deal to the community of my constituency, Vaudreuil—Soulanges. As you know, our community experienced historic flooding in 2017 and again in 2019. This program truly helps us and will continue to assist us in the coming years and decades.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you.

We'll now go to our next speaker, and that's Mr. Simard.

Mr. Simard, you have six minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for joining us, Minister.

We've often talked about hydrogen. I don't want to talk about it at length. I just want to point out that, according to many articles, the hydrogen bubble is deflating. In the federal government's strategy, which is only four years old, the initial forecast stated that hydrogen would generate $11,000 billion. Just four years later, that figure has been lowered to $2,000 billion. This amounts to an 80% reduction. It's quite astonishing. However, I don't want to get into that. I just want to say that, in my opinion, people are often misguided when it comes to adopting energy strategies. I get the same impression in the case of carbon capture and sequestration.

I have a fairly simple question. I asked Ms. Freeland the same question when you were both at this committee. I would like a clear and unambiguous answer. Does the government intend to fund the Pathways Alliance through the Canada Growth Fund?

I would like to hear your answer to this question.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

As you know, we introduced a tax credit to support carbon capture projects. There's also the Canada Growth Fund. However, the Canada Growth Fund makes investment decisions independently. I think that it has conversations with the Pathways Alliance, but it has conversations with many companies across Canada. In any case, the Canada Growth Fund must make its own decisions.