Natural Resources Committee on May 2nd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Perfect. Thanks so much.

We have 27 minutes on the clock until the votes. We'll get into the first couple of rounds of questions.

Mr. McLean, I'll turn it over to you. We'll get right into your first six minutes.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses.

I've heard a lot in the lead-up to this question. I will say there is a constructive narrative here. I'm not going to spend a lot of time debunking it, but it is based on a fantasy that there's enough money in the world to try and accomplish what some of the witnesses here are going to say.

I'm going to focus my questions on Ms. Dusyk and the task force for a resilient recovery.

Two years ago, the IISD, the International Institute for Sustainable Development, was involved with the task force for a resilient recovery when Parliament wasn't sitting. Fifteen members, including yours, were designing an outcome for Canada that found its way into the throne speech and then into the budget, word for word, about how Canada was going to transition, including hundreds of billions of dollars. Nobody from Parliament and nobody, ostensibly, from the Department of the Environment or the Government of Canada had any input on that whatsoever.

Can you explain how you think this is democratic input, or is it just democracy by NGO, non-governmental organizations, alone?

[Dr. Nichole Dusyk]

No. I'm not able to comment on that. I wasn't with IISD at the time. I don't have any particular comments on that.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Okay. Thank you.

Let's move toward Environment Canada's role in what we call the just transition.

If Environment Canada's role is solely to dole out taxpayer funds to organizations like yours to announce the propaganda that you are announcing about what the government's role should be in this process, are the jobs at the Department of the Environment the ones that should be transitioning?

[Dr. Nichole Dusyk]

Is the question that we should no longer have Environment and Climate Change Canada?

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

The question is that if Environment and Climate Change Canada's role is just to give out money to well-thought-of organizations like yours, is Environment Canada really necessary to advise the government anymore?

[Dr. Nichole Dusyk]

It's my understanding that this is not Environment and Climate Change Canada's entire role. They have an important role in regulating and governing environmental matters in Canada.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I agree.

The question is that your budget in 2020 tripled with this government to $17 million from the government, but it's far more if you count the other governmental organizations that contributed. As a matter of fact, I think $24 million of a $30 million budget comes from the federal government or other governments for your organization.

IISD is a government-funded organization that we're talking about. Is that correct?

[Dr. Nichole Dusyk]

IISD receives funding from the Canadian government, absolutely. It also receives funding from other international governments, as well as funding from the UN. We have some project-based and foundation funding as well.

All of our funding is available in our annual reports. It's available for anybody who would like to look and see it.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question. I have your financial reports here, and the numbers I just exactly stated are that this is all government money going into your coffers, and it has increased significantly in the last few years. That's when some Liberal policy advisers came on to your management team and executive. Is that correct?

[Dr. Nichole Dusyk]

I can't speak specifically to that.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Well, I can. It tripled in 2020 once Jane McDonald, the next policy adviser to the environment minister, came on your board. Is that correct?

[Dr. Nichole Dusyk]

I will assume that it is.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Okay. Thank you.

In your financial statements this year, in addition to the government money that's a gift or more or less an operating licence for you to give testimony and advance these initiatives, you got $798,000 in CERB and payouts for the pandemic. If you're getting grants from the government, do you really need more grants from the government, or are you taking money with both hands at this point in time?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm just going to jump in here for a second and then I'll let you get back to your line of questioning.

I just want to point out that our witness is the senior policy adviser, and some of the questions you're asking may be more appropriate for others within the organization. I can't speak to that, but I just wanted to flag to Ms. Dusyk that if she's not the right person, given the nature of some of the questions, to just let the—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, she's the only witness I have here from the IISD as someone to answer the questions—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

That's fine. I just want to point out that—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Well, can I have my time back, please, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Yes.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I'm not sure what the nature of that intervention was, but—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I stopped the clock.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

—I can assure you that this is the only witness from IISD that I get in front of this committee. There are good things that IISD does, including the Experimental Lakes program, which was its initial mandate. It's far beyond that mandate now, and as I say, if I'm pointing out that in the last three years the gifts and grants they get from the government have tripled because of political connections, I think it's a very important part.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

My comment was based on the witness's knowledge.

I'm going to start the clock again. You have a minute and 32 seconds left.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you.

You talk about corporate accountability here. Does corporate accountability apply to your organization and the questions I'm asking here today about what is happening to taxpayer dollars in this process?

[Dr. Nichole Dusyk]

Yes, absolutely.