Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 17th, 2022

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I'm just wondering if you have a definition that you use. What defines a “subsidy” for your department? Do you consider the money that your department puts out as a subsidy, or do you consider that just as a loan? What's the nature of it?

[Abdul Jalil]

There are two different key components when our department puts money out. One is for the ecosystem developments, and that is to non-profit organizations, mainly academic institutions or other such organizations, to build ecosystems, build the capacity there, so that's nonrepayable.

The other component is for business scale-up and productivity, and those are repayable contributions to the for-profit organizations.

I hope I answered your question.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Yes, thank you very much. I appreciate that.

I'm just wondering what kind of a return on investment Natural Resources Canada—for you, I guess, it would be PrairiesCan—getting from the infrastructure funding provided to coal transition communities.

[Abdul Jalil]

We are still making some investment in the coal transition initiative there, so it might be premature for me to point out the return on investment at this stage.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

There was a two-year time frame when the government did nothing on the just transition, on coal transition. It was in a report by the Auditor General to the environment commissioner, so two years was completely lost to it.

Are you concerned about the impact that it is going to have on the communities that will be impacted by the coal transition?

[Abdul Jalil]

Again, that is something that maybe Natural Resources Canada would be in a much better position to answer.

[Joanne Pawluk, Director General, Business Innovation and Community Development, North, Prairies Economic Development Canada]

Maybe I could jump in there.

During that time, we continued to develop our coal programs, both the Canada coal transition initiative and the Canada coal transition initiative on the infrastructure side. We continued to work with our communities, and we were delivering the programs, so I wouldn't say for us, in the delivery of those programs, there was two-year hiatus.

On the Natural Resources Canada side, they were looking at broader just transition initiatives, but, in terms of the program delivery to those coal communities, there was no pause throughout COVID, and we continued to work.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Okay. Thank you.

To the Canada Energy Regulator, what is Canada's baseload rate of energy that is required to get through a given year, say for 2023, and then what's the projection for 2030?

[Jean-Denis Charlebois]

I don't have that particular data point at my fingertips, but I could follow up with the committee afterwards.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Yes, if you could submit to us what is currently required and if you have a projection number for 2030, that would be great.

Do you have a definition that you use for “subsidy” as a regulator?

[Jean-Denis Charlebois]

No, we don't. We don't administer those kinds of financial mechanisms.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Okay. That's okay. I just thought I would ask, just to see.

When it comes to the energy industry as a whole, how is Canada doing on checking out the life-cycle emissions of projects, both for the oil and gas side but also for the green sector?

[Jean-Denis Charlebois]

The regulatory framework, specifically for federally regulated pipelines, is about assessing the impact that the project will have on Canada's ability to meet its climate commitment. In terms of an assessment of a full life cycle of GHG emissions for any given energy source, this is not an analysis that the CER conducts. It's really focused on the emissions of a particular pipeline.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Unfortunately, we're out of time.

We're going to go to Ms. Dabrusin next for five minutes.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you.

I'm particularly interested in zero-emission vehicles, so I think I'll be asking a lot of my questions around that today, particularly because I see great synergies across our country when I see that a company like New Flyer, based in Manitoba, has a contract with my home city of Toronto to provide over 500 electric hybrid buses, which is an amazing way to support jobs in one city and, at the same, to also help in the transition in another city.

I noticed at the same time as I was looking into that bit of information that just recently there was an announcement—and this would be for the Prairies—of an investment in Manitoba for a vehicle technology centre to support the transition to zero-emission heavy vehicles.

I was wondering if I could get a little bit more information about that project. What is the hope as to what that would generate?

[Abdul Jalil]

I assume that's targeted to PrairiesCan.

It is to support the research partnership between companies to address and solve shared electric vehicle problems and issues. The Red River College Polytechnic and the Vehicle Technology Centre received $3 million to create the clean technology and advanced manufacturing program.

This support is about the R and D of zero-emission heavy equipment vehicles.

One notable project is Frontiers North's EV tundra buggy that uses repurposed batteries from an electric bus to take tourists across the subarctic terrain of northern Manitoba.

I think it's more about the R and D when it comes to the electric vehicle.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Are there any estimates about the types of jobs or the number of jobs that this investment in electrical vehicle technology in the Prairies will generate?

[Abdul Jalil]

I can't provide you any specific number at this time.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Would you be able to provide it to me at a later time?

[Abdul Jalil]

We will look into it and see if we have a number that we can provide to you.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you.

[Abdul Jalil]

Absolutely.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I was also curious, because I saw lots of great announcements happening in the Prairies, and it seems that recently there was an announcement in Calgary of the Energy Transition Centre.

I think I'm staying with you, Prairies.

Can you tell me a bit about the purpose of this Energy Transition Centre?

[Abdul Jalil]

Joanne, do you want to take that one?

[Joanne Pawluk]

Yes, I can speak to that.

The Energy Transition Centre was funding for the University of Calgary. It supports clean-tech start-ups and incubates decarbonization solutions.

We have provided just over $2 million toward that Energy Transition Centre.