Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 24th, 2022

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

In October, the Alberta Federation of Labour, along with Unifor in western Canada, the boilermakers in Alberta, building trades in western Canada, IBEW, and district 3 steelworkers wrote to the Prime Minister saying they wanted to see serious investments in a clean energy economy. Calgary Economic Development and Edmonton Global have stated that they see that investments in clean tech will create a $61-billion opportunity for Alberta and 170,000 jobs.

Yet, Mr. Gunton, when I look at direct tax subsidies to oil and gas, the $18 billion you predict in tolls to undercut the cost of TMX, the $15 billion that we see from Export Development Canada and the $21 billion spent on TMX, this is almost the equivalent of what would be generated in the market if we had a clean-tech economy.

Do we see anything close to the scope of investments in clean tech to kick-start this economy that the workers have been calling for, as well as the Calgary Economic Development? Is it anything close in comparison to what is being given right now to oil and gas?

[Dr. Thomas Gunton]

I haven't done a comparison of the financial support for the different sectors, but if you took the $21.4 billion that we have now committed to Trans Mountain and invested it in other sectors, or even if we increased the tolls on Trans Mountain to reduce the losses, we'd have more funding available for these high-growth sectors.

The economic benefits would be significantly higher than investing it in a declining sector. Invest it in a growing sector that's clean.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I was in Germany last week meeting with the German government, and they were very clear. They said that, if we couldn't get them LNG within the next two years, they weren't interested. They want hydrogen, and they want hydrogen on a major industrial level.

Mr. Gunton, would you think that the $21 billion we're spending on TMX and the massive subsidies that will be given on tolls could be put into a hydrogen economy to make deals in Europe right now? We could put that money into where the Europeans are going, rather than the 20th century economy that's continually being promoted by big oil.

[Dr. Thomas Gunton]

Yes, I certainly agree with that.

You want to go into the growth sectors, not the declining sectors, if you want a healthy, sustainable economy.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

That brings us to the end of the time we have for our meeting today.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being here with us, both in person and virtually.

I'd also like to indicate that, if anybody has any additional thoughts you would like to provide us with, up to 10 additional pages in writing following today's conversation, you're welcome to submit that to our clerk.

Based on a motion that we had for receiving testimony, we set five o'clock on the Friday following the last hearing, which is today, so if you were going to send anything, we would need it by the end of the day tomorrow. I know that's a tight turnaround, but that is what we're working with.

For committee members, the next meeting is November 29, next Tuesday. We're going to be reviewing version two of the draft report on the greenhouse gas emissions for the oil and gas sector study. We're keeping 30 minutes at the end to provide drafting instructions.

Mr. Simard, go ahead.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to say something for just a minute.

If we want to get the Parliamentary Budget Officer's report on the pipeline so it can be considered by the analysts, should we request that right away?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Any material that we can get in right away on both would be.... We can always ask. If that's not possible, we can have them request an extension. Then I'd have to bring it back to the committee on Tuesday for that.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I think it's a public document.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Perfect.

If there is nothing else, folks, thank you for the good meeting today.

Folks, we're adjourned.