Evidence of meeting #57 for Natural Resources in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was actually.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
Ms. Stubbs, you're done.
Next up, I have Mr. Sorbara, who has six minutes.
I believe you will be sharing your time with Ms. Lapointe. It's over to you. The clock is running.
March 21st, 2023 / 4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Welcome, Minister, to the natural resources committee once again.
Getting right to it, Minister, our government is implementing several programs targeted at reducing emissions from Canada's building and industrial sectors, such as the Canada green buildings strategy, the codes acceleration fund and the deep retrofit accelerator initiative. How will these programs support the reduction of emissions in the building and industrial sectors, while ensuring job and prosperity sustainability for businesses in the city of Vaughan, the area I live in and represent, and across Canada?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
Thank you for the question.
Certainly, addressing energy efficiency is critically important. It is actually the low-hanging fruit in terms of ensuring that we are being as effective as possible. It reduces the amount of additional generation capacity that we have to build.
These energy efficiency programs will ensure that we are reducing emissions from our buildings sector, all while helping Canadians save money on their energy bills. For example, the codes acceleration fund will support provinces, territories and stakeholders to adopt and implement the highest performance of the national model energy code, ensuring that we build things more efficiently right from the start. The deep retrofit accelerator, for its part, will aim to break down barriers and make it easier to undertake deep retrofits on existing units to make them more affordable.
These are the kinds of programs that help and support good jobs in communities like Vaughan. In fact, they can help support companies like JELD-WEN, a window and door manufacturer that I commended last summer for being among the winners of the 2022 Energy Star awards.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Minister.
I have a follow-up question. As the key economic generator of York Region, a region that is home to over 1.2 million residents, the city of Vaughan comprises about 40% of the economic output as measured and released by statistics. The city of Vaughan is home to businesses in such critical sectors as manufacturing and construction, as well as supply chain and logistics centres. We're also home to the two largest private sector unions in the province of Ontario on the construction side: LiUNA local 183 and local 27 of the carpenters.
With the impact of climate change, businesses will also need to adapt. How will the climate change adaptation program benefit the communities that depend on critical economic sectors? How will the climate change adaptation program ensure that Canada has the necessary workforce to design and implement adaptation actions?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
Most businesses and communities certainly understand their climate change risks, but many lack the tools and the skills to evaluate the options for adaptation. The climate change adaptation program will continue to cofund projects that improve the resilience of communities and industries supporting underlying systems critical for our economic success.
This program will respond to the demands for personnel with expertise in adaptation, providing up to $10 million over five years to cofund projects that support adaptation and skills development for professionals and to upgrade standards and qualifications for workers. It will build on previous projects, which enabled accountants, engineers and planners to integrate climate change adaptation into their advice and into their activities.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
Minister, you were recently in Sudbury to discuss critical minerals with some of our country's most prominent researchers and stakeholders in this space. It was a pleasure to welcome you to one of Canada's most important regions. The critical minerals supply chain will create good-paying jobs, grow our economy and help reduce emissions.
You mentioned during your last appearance that the critical minerals strategy was going to be released. Now that the strategy is out, how is this fitting into our broader economic plan?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
I must say that it was really great to be in Sudbury with you and again at PDAC, where Sudbury has, perhaps, the best of the receptions.
As I've said many times at this committee, Canada is very well placed to become the supplier of choice for technology and clean energy and a reliable supplier of critical minerals.
As the world moves towards a lower-carbon economy, smart money is flowing away from assets that are not compatible with the transition to a net-zero world and towards opportunities that are. There are significant opportunities for Canada in this regard, if you think about biofuels, hydrogen, CCUS, the decarbonization of the oil and gas sector, SMRs, renewables and a range of clean technologies, but perhaps the most significant economic opportunity lies in the area of critical minerals. That is from the exploration, extraction, processing and refining to advanced manufacturing, including batteries, to the recycling of critical minerals.
Our strategy goes along that value chain. It is aimed at developing the entire value chain, including examples such as the rare earth processing facility in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Our strategy is, by definition, an economic plan, as the sustainable development of the critical minerals supply chain will attract investments and create good-paying jobs in every province and territory in this country, very much including processing like Electra Battery Materials.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON
Minister, you just mentioned the Electra Battery Materials project.
As is indicated in the supplementary estimates (C) 2022-23, this project, which involves refining cobalt, one of our critical minerals, will receive funding.
Can you explain to us how this funding fits into the overall development of our critical minerals supply chain?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
Canada's Critical Minerals Strategy, which was supported by $3.8 billion in Budget 2022, sets out a path for Canada to become a global supplier of choice for critical minerals and the clean digital technologies they enable.
This strategy has targeted cobalt as a critical mineral that can drive economic growth and contribute to priority supply chains.
The Electra Battery Materials project is consistent with the objectives of the strategy, in particular that of developing national and global value chains for the green economy and the government's climate change objectives.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
We're out of time on that round.
We'll now move to Mr. Simard, who will have six minutes.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, Minister. It's always a pleasure to have you here.
Since I'm a good student, I listened to what you said in your presentation. You mentioned that we should not stick our head in the sand and that we need a clear-headed strategy.
I agree with you and hope that we will remain in agreement throughout my intervention.
In fact, not sticking your head in the sand means realizing that, unfortunately, in certain economies which have a low carbon footprint, some industrial sectors might have to be left behind. There is a concept I like a lot that can give us some perspective on that, namely the fair transition.
Indeed, Canada is a signatory to the Conference of the Parties, or COP. Canada signed on to the Just Transition Declaration.
My question is pretty basic. Do you agree with the idea of a just transition?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
I think it's very important to have discussions on the economy of the future, which must be based on low carbon emissions.
It is important to have a plan for sustainable jobs and industries, as we did when we launched the Sustainable Jobs Plan.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
I will try to be more specific.
In my view, in the fight against climate change that we are waging, we need clear principles and frameworks. The just transition is a principle.
By signing on to the Just Transition Declaration, Canada committed itself to a lower carbon economy and to retraining workers so they can find employment in new economic sectors.
Is the just transition principle applied in your own department?
Do you apply guidelines in line with those of the declaration that Canada has signed on to?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
Yes, and the words we use are important.
I personally prefer the words “sustainable jobs”, since they speak to the future, to opportunities for workers across the country, which is very important.
Of course, that's part of the economy. We need to grow our economy, but obviously we need to support jobs and workers.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
There you go. That's what I was getting at, Minister.
I find it strange that you've changed your tone. Unless I'm mistaken, the last time you appeared before the committee, it was in May in the course of our study on the just transition. You concluded your statement by saying: “By working together, we can ensure a just transition by creating sustainable jobs in every region of the country.”
You referred to the concept of a just transition, but, strangely, you seem to have changed your tone since the Premier of Alberta, Danielle Smith, sent a letter to the Prime Minister asking him to stop talking about the just transition and to speak more about sustainable jobs.
Personally, that bothers me a bit, since I feel there's a lack of courage when you don't want to refer to the idea of a just transition. If you don't have the courage to use that expression, I'm not sure you'll have the courage to extricate yourself from a high-carbon economy.
Do you agree with my reasoning?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
We started saying “sustainable jobs” well before Ms. Smith said we should use that expression. It is important to use words which reflect the future job opportunities in Canada.
I grew up in Saskatchewan, and I know that it's important to focus discussions on jobs and opportunities rather than on semantics. That's very important, and we must be careful to have discussions on matters of substance.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
I understand, Minister, but words and their meanings are important.
In my opinion, the fact that you are trying to get around the Just Transition Declaration sends a very bad signal. For now, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not sure you're on the right track.
Before I finish, I would like to ask you one more question.
The cost overruns of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion are shocking to many people. I liked what the Deputy Prime Minister said last February, namely that no additional taxpayers' money would go towards the Trans Mountain project.
When I look at the supplementary estimates, I see that an amount of $811,000 is earmarked for strengthening the protection of the environment and to address concerns raised by indigenous people with regard to the expansion of the Trans Mountain pipeline.
We are talking about taxpayers' money. Taxpayers will be on the hook once more for the Trans Mountain pipeline.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
We may have to come back to it, if you'd like a response, in your next—
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
We might have to leave that to the next round. Everybody has been pretty good about staying within their time.
The minister may want to start in the next round, but we are going to move right now to Mr. Angus, who has the floor for the next six minutes.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Minister.
There's so much to talk about. We have Joe Biden coming. We're going to be talking about the IRA and Canadian investments.
I would like to start off, because of this reporting, on Paper Excellence. This is a company that now controls 22 million hectares of Canadian forest, it's been said, which is an area larger than Nova Scotia.
What concerns me is that they control Resolute, Domtar and Northern Pulp. Their ownership says they're Canadian-based, but what we've been trying to track is...it goes through a whole series of shell companies set up in the Netherlands, Malaysia, the Malaysian offshore jurisdiction of Labuan, and two shell companies in the Virgin Islands. All of them are tied back to Indonesia and the Sinar Mas group.
Do we have any certainty whether this company is a Canadian company? Who are they?
