Evidence of meeting #65 for Natural Resources in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mill.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
Thank you.
We're going to go now to Monsieur Simard for his three minutes.
5:55 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Moffatt, I don't have a question for you, but I would like to ask you to do something. You explained the link between Paper Excellence and Sinar Mas. Can you submit all documents related to Paper Excellence's ownership structure to the committee?
5:55 p.m.
Head of Nature and Food Campaign, Greenpeace Canada
I'd be delighted to. Thank you.
5:55 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you very much.
Mr. Bégin, I can tell the committee that we attended a meeting with other unions and Minister Champagne, to discuss the sale of Resolute Forest Products to Paper Excellence before the transaction was completed. To be fully transparent, however, the committee should also be told that a watchdog committee was struck, including Mr. Vaillancourt and members from other unions, to voice workers' concerns. To date, that committee has not met with the new owners of the various Paper Excellence facilities, particularly in Saguenay-Lac‑Saint‑Jean.
What concerns have been raised with the Minister regarding this transaction? Can you just go over the main concerns workers have about the Paper Excellence transaction?
6 p.m.
President, Fédération de l'industrie manufacturière
As we mentioned earlier, the workers' concerns relate to the lack of transparency around the transaction. Indeed, no information has been disclosed about the company's vision for the region. The focus is on Lac‑Saint‑Jean, in Quebec, where the majority of Resolute Forest Products' holdings are located. We are still waiting to see the business plan. Elsewhere in the world, Paper Excellence has a different vision than we have in Quebec.
Earlier, I talked about all our industry activities, among other things. This includes forest harvesting, silviculture, sawmills and the various markets that have sawmills, as well as the wood chips used for pulp and paper, the paper itself, and cardboard. The business plan does not specify whether Paper Excellence will maintain its entire chain of operations: Will some links of the chain be sold off? This is a major concern for the workers.
There's a second concern, related to pension funds, which I'll let Mr. Vaillancourt speak to. However, I can say the following. Earlier, we talked about what we saw in Nova Scotia. In Quebec, there's a particular caveat: when Bowater and Donohue were acquired by Resolute Forest Products, a condition was set to change the pension fund, and that has been done. The old fund is now overdrawn. We're wondering whether this will be recognized in the transaction.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
Okay. We're out of time on that round.
Now I'm going to have to jump to Mr. Angus, who will have the final three minutes for today's round.
6 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you.
I think what I found really shocking when I started to look into Paper Excellence was trying to actually figure out their corporate structure. There's a whole series of holding companies and all of these offshore shell jurisdictions all over the world.
Mr. Moffatt, I want to ask about how convoluted that is.
I come from the Abitibi region. The Abitibi River gave birth to a paper mill called Abitibi, which at one point was the biggest paper mill in the world. Back then, its head office was in Montreal—we knew where that was—but I don't know what this company is in the Virgin Islands. I don't know the ones offshore in Malaysia. I don't know the one in the Netherlands.
I'm told it's owned by this individual, Mr. Jackson Wijaya, but the corporate filings tell me that Mr. Jackson Wijaya could be an individual or a relative of Jackson Wijaya, or it could be the corporate interests of Jackson Wijaya.
If this is such a good Canadian story, why is it being hidden through so many corporate shell companies?
6 p.m.
Head of Nature and Food Campaign, Greenpeace Canada
Thank you, Mr. Angus. That's a very good question, in my opinion.
One of the questions I find myself asking after our investigations is this: Surely, it can't be an accident that they're structured like this. Why would any company go to all these extreme lengths to create so many corporate veils? There has to be a reason for it, but it seems to me—to be completely honest—that we or the Canadian public still don't fully understand why they've done that.
6 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I looked at the Sinar Mas company. Our first round seemed really surprised we were asking about Sinar Mas when Canadian officials say that Sinar Mas and Paper Excellence are the same company. If you look at their website, their corporate executive team is Teguh Wijaya, Indra Wijaya, Muktar Wijaya, Franky Wijaya and Fuganto Wijaya. The Asia Pulp & Paper company was founded by Eka Wijaya. Now, the individual who is in control of 22 million hectares of Canadian forest is Jackson Wijaya.
Under their corporate filings, which say that Mr. Jackson Wijaya could be any one of those relatives, would that give them a pretty clear legal connection back to Sinar Mas?
Go ahead, Mr. Moffatt.
6:05 p.m.
Head of Nature and Food Campaign, Greenpeace Canada
I think the connection to Sinar Mas that we've outlined in our investigation is undeniable. It's at multiple levels. It's through multiple connections. Our investigation based itself on public filings in a number of jurisdictions around the world—it's all publicly available—and I think the connections to Sinar Mas are extremely extensive and involve a range of different—
6:05 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I'm going to have to interrupt you, because I'm running out of time here.
Sinar Mas has a long list of environmental damage allegations. There have been major international campaigns to get companies like Burger King, Mattel and Carrefour to cut ties to Sinar Mas. Asia Pulp & Paper lost its international FSC certification because of damage—
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
6:05 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
To wrap up, would it be in the interest of Paper Excellence to obscure its connections to Asia Pulp & Paper and Sinar Mas, given the question of its FSC certification in Canada?
6:05 p.m.
Head of Nature and Food Campaign, Greenpeace Canada
Without speaking to the company's intent, which I have no knowledge of, I would observe that there are certainly benefits to not being associated with Asia Pulp & Paper, including some you've alluded to.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Mr. Chair, I have a point of order quickly.
Very quickly, Mr. Chair, I have the great privilege of getting to work with the honourable member from Vaughan—Woodbridge. He's a great parliamentarian. I got a bit heated as he was rightfully wishing a colleague goodbye. I'd like to remove that from the record in the blues if we could, and add to say how much I think he's a great guy.
Thank you.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
We have a hard stop of 6:10. We're down to three minutes left.
I would like to thank the witnesses who were here today for joining us. It has been a very abbreviated session. As I mentioned, we will reach out to you through the clerk to see if you would be able to come back. We would normally still have 50 minutes left for questions and answers, so we'll see if we can find a time for almost an hour to bring you back to conclude this panel before the end of the session.
I have two other quick things. I'm going to turn to Mario in one second, but before I do that, Mario, this is the last meeting that we will have with our clerk Geneviève Desjardins, and I'd like to thank her for her support over the past year.
6:05 p.m.
Some hon. members
Hear, hear!
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
Geneviève's moving to a new committee, to Canadian heritage. They're very fortunate.
Geneviève, thank you for all of your support. We have a card and a small gift, and something else here that we'll get to you.
We'd like to welcome our new clerk, Stephanie Bond. Welcome to natural resources, Stephanie.
6:05 p.m.
Some hon. members
Hear, hear!
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
As a reminder, on Friday, we have, for the first hour, the officials to continue this discussion, and then we will likely go in camera for the sustainable jobs draft report version two, so come prepared for that.
Now it's over to Mario.
6:05 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
I think I have the consent of all my colleagues to table a motion of which I have already given notice. I therefore move:
That the committee mandate the chair to write a letter on behalf of the Committee to Jackson Wijaya, Chief Executive Officer of Paper Excellence, to ask him to give his consent to waive the confidentiality of his discussions and communications with the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry regarding the company’s ownership structure and business relationships in the Canadian pulp and paper sector.
This should be done before said witnesses are invited to testify before the committee, in accordance with the motion adopted on March 31, 2023.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
Is there is any discussion?
(Motion agreed to)
Folks, thank you so much. We've had an action-packed meeting today.
The meeting is adjourned.