Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 80 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Natural Resources. Today we are meeting in public to discuss committee business.

Everybody is aware of the Zoom reminders this morning. In accordance with our routine motion, I am informing the committee that all remote participants have completed the required connection test in advance of the meeting.

I will go to Mr. Sorbara.

You had your hand up.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Good morning, everyone. Happy Monday to everyone back in Ottawa and back to work for the constituents and residents of your respective ridings.

Mr. Chair, I want to start this morning by moving a scheduling motion as a basis to begin our committee discussion today. I believe we forwarded the motion to the clerk, who will forward it on to all the honourable and esteemed members who sit on this committee.

I move:

That given Bill C-50, An act respecting accountability, transparency and engagement to support the creation of sustainable jobs for workers and economic growth in a net-zero economy, and Bill C-49, an act to amend the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act and the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts, have been both referred to committee, that the committee initiate its consideration of both Bill C-50 and Bill C-49 with the following schedule:

a) That the minister and officials be invited to appear before the committee on Bill C-50, on a date to be determined by the Chair but no later than Wednesday November 8, 2023;

b) That the minister and officials be invited to appear before the committee on C-49 on a date to be determined by the Chair but no later than Wednesday December 6, 2023;

c) That members submit their lists of suggested witnesses concerning Bill C-50 by 12pm on Friday November 3, 2023 and that the Chair, clerk and analysts create witness panels which reflect the representation of the parties on the committee and, once complete, that the Chair begin scheduling those meetings;

d) That members submit their lists of suggested witnesses concerning Bill C-49 by 12pm on Friday November 10, 2023 and that the Chair, clerk and analysts create witness panels which reflect the representation of the parties on the committee, and, once complete, that the Chair begin scheduling those meetings;

e) That the Chair seek additional meeting times and that meetings be scheduled, if resources available, for up to three hours each;

f) That the Chair issue press releases for C-50 and C-49 inviting written submissions from the public and establishing a deadline for those submissions;

g) That the Committee hold at least four meetings with witnesses on C-50 before clause-by-clause consideration for C-50 is scheduled;

h) That the Committee hold at least four meetings with witnesses on C-49 before clause-by-clause consideration for C-49 is scheduled; and

i) That the Chair set deadlines for the submission of proposed amendments for C-50 and C-49 in advance of the beginning of their respective clause-by-clause considerations, but no sooner than after the completion of the respective witness meetings for each, and that the Members of the Committee, as well as Members who are not part of a caucus represented on the Committee, submit to the Clerk all of their proposed amendments to C-50 and C-49 no later than 5pm on the respective days established by the Chair, in both official languages, and that these be distributed to Members.

Mr. Chair, the committee clerk should be distributing this motion now in both official languages, French and English.

I would add that we've been waiting for the sustainable jobs legislation and amendments to the Atlantic accord acts for some time, given that they were both introduced before the summer.

On Bill C-50 specifically, our study on the topic has already made this committee well acquainted with the subject matter. Now that Bill C-50 and Bill C-49 have both been referred to this committee, it is our obligation as parliamentarians and members of this committee to move forward with examining them. That is our job. Legislation has always been considered a committee priority. The sustainable jobs act is a brief 11 pages. It is self-explanatory, and the committee is well acquainted with the subject matter. Labour groups are calling for its consideration.

Bill C-49 is a much larger bill, and a very important bill that the governments of both Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador are calling on us to advance. It is in the interests of their provinces and our country.

This motion lays out a reasonable timeline to begin consideration of both bills concurrently and to submit witness lists for both bills for the respective public panel hearings.

It would have the minister appearing on Bill C-50 first, perhaps even this week if we can vote on the motion today, and Bill C-49 in the coming weeks. As mentioned, we believe this motion lays out a very reasonable and pragmatic timeline for consideration of both bills, but if members want a little additional flexibility, we are certainly prepared to consider amendments today.

It includes at least four public hearings on Bill C-50 and at least four public hearings on Bill C-49, for a total, if we have two-hour meetings, of 16 hours, and three-hour meetings in addition to. It calls for additional time to be added to scheduled meetings so we can facilitate the inclusion of even more meetings.

At a minimum, we'd be looking at a month or more of public hearings, which will allow for substantial witness participation. It allows time for whatever is required for clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-50 and Bill C-49 for the consideration of amendments. It allows for this committee to strenuously and judiciously analyze both bills.

Colleagues, I hope we can allow for a vote on this matter today so that we can move forward on the business of the House of Commons, the business of our residents and the business of all Canadians with regard to this very important committee and the matters that have been referred to this committee.

I thank everyone for listening to me on this Monday morning. I look forward to hearing everybody's feedback and hopefully moving forward as expeditiously and collaboratively as ever.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Sorbara, for your motion.

I will go to Mr. Angus online.

The floor is yours.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Angus, there's a point of order.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Chair, as soon as you gavelled in the meeting, I had my hand up and was acknowledged by the clerk. I'm curious how you determined the order of things in that regard, because I did not see Mr. Angus put his hand up at that point in time.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Patzer.

As soon as Mr. Sorbara moved the motion, I saw Mr. Angus's hand up—that's where I looked to next—and then I saw your hand up afterwards. That's the way I saw it, and that's the ruling I'm—

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Okay, but as the meeting was gavelled in, I had a question and a point of clarity that I was seeking. As soon as you gavelled the meeting in, I had my hand up.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I will recognize you after Mr. Angus.

If you want to challenge the chair, if that's your will, you have the will to do that, but that's what I've decided. Mr. Angus is online. He had his hand up. You'll be next.

Go ahead, Mrs. Stubbs, on a point of order.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Chair, we seem to be having a consistent problem, which has developed especially rapidly in the last couple of meetings, where you're having trouble seeing what's happening on this side of the table.

I don't really know what the remedy is, but we're all members of Parliament, equally duly elected and trying to do our due diligence and our jobs here on this committee for the people we represent and for all Canadians. I know we all come to this work with that view.

I don't know. I will admit, Chair, and having known me for a long time, you'll agree, I often find myself—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

This isn't a point of order.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

It is about to be a point of order. I want to address this issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Okay, not debate, on the point of order, please.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Sorry, guys, just don't get too emotional.

I was going to say that I've been short for my entire life, so it's very normal, standing in a crowd or at tables, that people can't see me or they overlook me.

Is there something we could do with this to ensure that both you and the clerk have an easy time seeing us, and is there any other remedy that might be required? I think you need to give us one sooner than later to ensure that you're seeing the hands up here.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Ms. Stubbs.

I can see you—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Can I just finish, Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

On the point of order.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Chair, you rightfully told me not to interrupt. If I could just finish, I think we need a remedy so that everybody can have confidence in the proceedings here that the rules and the chairing are even for everybody.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you.

To the point of order, I can see you. You are sitting here. I even brought my reading glasses today, just in case I need to take them off.

Thank you. I will do my best to make sure I acknowledge everybody.

I have gone to Mr. Angus. He is online. I did see his hand go up, so I'm going to Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you so much, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Sorry, Mr. Angus, but we have a separate point of order from Mr. Falk.

I'll ask you to hold for one minute, Mr. Angus.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Further to what Mr. Patzer indicated, when you gavelled in the meeting, his hand immediately went up and it was recognized. After that, Mr. Sorbara tabled his motion, at which time Charlie's hand went up. There was a previous hand up before Francesco started with his motion, which isn't being recognized. I think that's very problematic.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Falk.

We have another point of order from Mr. Aldag.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I would simply say that you've made your ruling. You've given us a speaking order and you've acknowledged people from all sides—virtual, opposition, government side.

If there's a problem with that, challenge the chair. Otherwise, let's move on.

You've made your ruling and we have a speaking order. Let's move on. We have important business to get to today.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Aldag.

We have a point of order from Ms. Stubbs.