Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Patzer.

We have a point of order from Mr. Carrie.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Can I have a point of order on the point of order from Mr. Patzer before we go to the next point of order? It's on the same point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Genuis, you have to hold on for a second. I'm going to deal with one point of order at a time.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

It's in relation to the point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I know, but your colleague next to you has a point of order. I want to hear his point of order, and then I'll come back to you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Hopefully, there are no other points of order and I can come back to you on your point of order.

I have Mr. Carrie on a point of order.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I think I had the original point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Go ahead, Mr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

As you know, I'm not a regular member of this committee, but I have been on the Hill for a long period of time. I find this very unusual.

I was wondering if we could ask the clerk to intercede and explain how things left off at the last meeting, so that we can be very clear on this before we vote on—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for the point of order, Mr. Carrie, and for joining us today.

The chair has made a ruling on the speaking order. If you would like to challenge that ruling, you can, but the ruling has been made that Mr. Angus has the floor.

Thank you.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Chair, for—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Angus had the floor.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

You have the floor, but we have a point of order from Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have an outstanding point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Before I finish, I had the floor at that last meeting. It is false to say I didn't.

Is that not correct, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Angus, as I've clarified, you had the floor at the last meeting—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

No. You didn't.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you. I look forward to speaking on this legislation.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We're going to the point of order from Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair. I have an outstanding point of order in both senses of the word.

First of all, to respond, Mr. Patzer had raised a point of order and you had asked for specific standing orders, so in order to support the important work the chair is doing, I do want to draw the attention of the chair to the specific standing order that Mr. Patzer was referring to.

Standing Order 116 is the standing order that generally applies. It states:

(1) In a standing, special or legislative committee, the Standing Orders shall apply so far as may be applicable, except the standing orders as to the election of a Speaker, seconding of motions, limiting the number of times of speaking and the length of speeches.

Standing Order 116(2)(a) states:

Unless a time limit has been adopted by the committee or by the House, the Chair of a standing, special or legislative committee may not bring a debate to an end while there are members present who still wish to participate. A decision of the Chair in this regard may not be subject to an appeal to the committee.

Standing Order 116(2)(b) states:

A violation of paragraph (a) of this section may be brought to the attention of the Speaker by any member and the Speaker shall have the power to rule on the matter. If, in the opinion of the Speaker, such violation has occurred, the Speaker may order that all subsequent proceedings in relation to the said violation be nullified.

What Standing Order 116 makes clear is that not only does the chair not have the arbitrary power to make up rules as he goes but also, on the particular issue of limiting the amount of time for which a person can speak or their ability to speak in accordance with Standing Order 116, that is a unique case in which a matter of privilege may actually be brought to the attention of the chair directly.

That being the case, I would urge the chair and the committee to make sure they are acting within their rules or, shall I say, that they reform their actions to align them with the rules—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Point of order.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

—because there are standing orders, and you don't just get to make it up because you happen to be the chair.