Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You say you don't want multiple members talking at once, and that is your basis for then starting to talk while someone else is talking and then telling them to be quiet.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Genuis, please—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

The idea of not allowing more than one person to speak at once should mean—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Chair, this is being abusive to our translators.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

—you let people finish what they're saying.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Okay.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues, we are back.

I'm going to a point of order by Ms. Dabrusin, who had a point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Then a point of order....

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's worrisome that we keep on having to break because of the way this is going forward, the conduct that's here on this committee and the danger it poses to the health and safety of our interpreters. I'm hoping that we can find a way to go ahead that does not pose that same risk. I appreciate that we had to have that suspension.

The point of order I want to bring is in relation to Standing Order 11(2). That's about repetition, because we have basically had now for several days the same point of order that is being made over and over again. Standing Order 11(2) states:

The Speaker or the Chair of Committees of the Whole, after having called the attention of the House, or of the committee, to the conduct of a member who persists in irrelevance, or repetition, may direct the member to discontinue his or her speech, and if then the member still continues to speak, the Speaker shall name the member or, if in committee of the whole, the Chair shall report the member to the House.

Essentially, repetition is contrary to our Standing Orders. We have heard now, like I said, for days the same point of order being made.

You have had a ruling. That ruling has not been respected. The chair can be challenged, but, otherwise, we should be moving on.

I will add that, if we had avoided these repetitions, not only would they probably have had the chance to speak, but we would have had Mr. Angus be able to speak in advance of that. We could have even voted on the motion, and we would have had the minister before us already. The delay at this point is really due to the repetition, and that is inexcusable.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Ms. Dabrusin, for your point of order.

Colleagues, I hope we can get to our speaking list. I'll just remind everybody that Mr. Angus did have the floor.

Members do have the ability to challenge that ruling. If they so choose, they can have another member speak if the committee wishes to do that.

Mr. Angus, you had a point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Yes, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Angus has a point of order, and Mr. Patzer has a point of order.

We will go first to Mr. Angus.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order as well, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

You've been recognized, but we're going Mr. Angus, who had a point of order first.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's fine, but make note of the fact that I have a point of order as well, Chair, because we keep getting cut off.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Go ahead, Mr. Angus, on a point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

To that, when we came out of the last suspension, I asked you about the issue of health and safety and making sure that abusive behaviour would not lead to a possible accident, as we've seen in the Senate. You said that, as chair, when you speak, others are to wait, and yet you had to suspend a second time because Mr. Garnett Genuis ignores you and spoke through you.

If we're going to have this abusive behaviour that puts people at risk, their health at risk, their health and safety, are you willing to suspend this committee because, again, the Conservatives are ignoring you? They don't care. They will speak over. We have a rule. You said that we should follow the rule. I'm trying to follow that rule, but you had to suspend a second time because of abusive behaviour.

On the next go-round, would you be willing to suspend committee so that we could talk to our whips' offices to get some level of dignified behaviour and professionalism? I don't think we can keep coming back in here and seeing this abusive behaviour happening, because we're talking about the health and safety of people who work on Parliament Hill and who have no stake in this except serving the Canadian people.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you.

I'm going to respond to that point of order.

Mr. Angus, we've suspended several times, and the last two were for the health and safety concerns that I have for our interpreters. I want everybody to ensure that we are not using points of order for debate.

I do want to allow members to finish their points of order and their points, but, once we get into debate, I do need to intervene to let members know that a point has been made so we can move on. I will say again that, as chair, I want to make sure that we're allowing all members to participate. If you're a member who would like the floor, you can wait your turn and get the floor. I will clearly suspend if it's required. I'm asking all members—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

—to do that. Okay?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'm sorry, Chair.

I was asking for a ruling, not about debate, not about people going back and forth. I was asking whether or not, if people are put at risk, you're willing to suspend the meeting. That's what I want to hear a ruling on. That is a very clear question I asked—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Okay, if it does—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

As much as the Conservatives want to shout me down, that was the question I asked. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I will suspend if I feel that it is a concern. I will suspend as I have previously done. I will not hesitate to suspend as soon as I believe our interpreters.... Their health and safety is a priority for us, and I will do that again and again to ensure the safety of our employees, who are working diligently and hard for our committee. Thank you.

I will now go to Mr. Patzer on a point of order.