Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

This is a separate point of order from my original one.

Building off what my colleague Ms. Stubbs just said in regard to using the term “abuse” so flippantly as Mr. Angus is doing here, we are simply here as elected members of Parliament doing our jobs. Because I had a simple point of order, it does not mean that I am engaging in abusive conduct towards the member for Timmins—James Bay. When he alleges that, he is directly and deliberately undermining people who are actually legitimately suffering and going through abuse this very day.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I have a point of order.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I think it's absolutely appalling that he would dare to bring that language into this committee. He needs to apologize and withdraw that. I know he doesn't agree with me on my point of order, which is fine, but because he simply disagrees with me does not mean that I am being abusive to him. I think that is absolutely ridiculous.

Mr. Chair, I would ask you to be judicious in the way you monitor this committee and to make sure that members are not belittling and undermining people who are legitimately going through and suffering from abuse.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Patzer, thank you for your point of order.

Mr. Angus has a point of order.

Mr. Angus, you do have the floor, but I want to go to you. Thank you for being patient.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

No, Chair. How about this? I have the floor. I will speak. I don't need to keep engaging with what is turning into a gong show. It's like a Monty Python sketch without the humour.

I've been, over six meetings, attempting to speak to a motion. I have the floor. I will continue to speak. I don't need a point of order to speak when I have the floor. Is that not correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

You do have the floor, Mr. Angus, and Ms. Dabrusin does have a point of order on Mr. Patzer's point of order. I just want to go to Ms. Dabrusin—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Go to Ms. Dabrusin, and then we'll come back to me.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Let's go to—

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

You're not the chair, Charlie. Just remember that.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

All right, folks. Once again, I know the mikes were off, but let's work together as committee members here. Talk to your colleagues, but let's not engage in conversations across the floor, just so we can all focus on the work at hand.

Ms. Dabrusin, please go ahead on your point of order, if you still have a point order. Then we can go back to where we were.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Chair, we're nearing 16 and a half hours now that you made a decision that Mr. Angus had the floor, and he has yet to be able to take the floor to complete his argument.

I would say, once again, if the members opposite want to challenge the chair's decision, they are free to do so. We are, at this point, engaging in all sorts of side conversations that are not getting us closer to what we really want to do, which is to make sure that workers have a seat at the table when we talk about sustainable jobs and the Canadian economy, and that we develop offshore wind in our Atlantic provinces to create jobs for Atlantic Canadians.

That is important for our economy. It's important for workers. I would ask that we go back to Mr. Angus, please, and let him have his say on the subamendment to the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Angus, before you proceed, if I could ask you to hold, we had an original point of order that was point of ordered. I just want to give Mr. Patzer an opportunity.

Mr. Patzer, if you would just focus on the procedural aspect of your point of order, we can return back to the order we were in with Mr. Angus having the floor. Please, go ahead on your point of order, if you had anything else to finish when the point of order occurred.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Yes, absolutely.

Mr. Angus started the meeting with the floor. He was not interrupted until he finished reading the motion, but he conveniently left out the amendment the Conservatives put forward to make sure that Bill C-49 is actually given precedence. We want to undertake a study on Bill C-69, but of consequence, we want Bill C-49 to go ahead of Bill C-50, for the sake of ordering.

I just want to make sure all committee members remember that Bill C-49 should come ahead of Bill C-50, and we would like to see Bill C-49 first.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Patzer, that's not a point of order procedurally on where we are.

I do want to remind committee members where we are, though. I think this a great opportunity for a quick refresh.

We had a motion brought forward by Mr. Sorbara. That's where we started. Then we had an amendment placed. Then we had a subamendment placed. Currently, we are on the subamendment by Mr. Falk on the importance of Timmins. That's where we are now.

Mr. Angus does have the floor. He did start today on providing his rationale for the subamendment. Now that we've gone through all the points of order, I think the stage is set for where we are, moving forward. Everybody has a clear understanding. We are on the subamendment.

I will proceed to Mr. Angus on the subamendment.

I am hoping, colleagues, unless you have a procedural issue, that we don't use points of order for debate but we focus on the procedural issue that you may have.

Mr. Angus, the floor is yours.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I have to say I'm absolutely not surprised that I was interrupted, even trying to read the motion, because this motion instruction is about getting, number one, Bill C-50, which is very important legislation about having workers at the table for the transition that is happening. Every time we have tried to bring workers here, we have seen gong show tactics from the Conservatives that have stopped them from speaking, so I'm not surprised that they're trying to interrupt this important work now.

When the carpenters' union came we had a Conservative gong show and they didn't speak. The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers came and there were gong show tactics from the Conservatives. They didn't let them speak. They represent so many people in the oil patch, and they have so much to say, so I'm not surprised that we're dealing with these constant games to stop legislation that is about making sure the workers have a right to be here, because they have stopped workers speaking every moment.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Angus, I am going to have to interrupt you. We have a point of order from Mr. Falk.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

This is a point of order, Mr. Chair.

You very clearly outlined where this committee was at, which is there was a motion on the floor by Mr. Sorbara, there was an amendment made, and then there is a subamendment. That subamendment is that we invite representatives from the riding of Timmins—James Bay to come to committee and be witnesses here.

I think Mr. Angus is forgetting the subamendment that we are actually speaking to at the moment. Could he actually use his time instead of criticizing everything that we've done up to this point and speak to the subamendment, which is about bringing the witnesses to the committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Falk, for your point of order.

Mr. Angus, you do have the floor on the subamendment. You've heard the point of order pertaining to your having the floor and focusing on the subamendment.

I'll give the floor back to you.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

It's interesting, because, again, we have not been able to discuss this at all without the Conservatives losing their minds on this, interrupting, demanding that I speak on what they want me to speak about.

I am here to speak about important legislation, two pieces of legislation, Bill C-50 and Bill C-49. It is essential that we move Bill C-50 forward. What we've seen is interference by the Conservatives to discuss other things, to move ahead, to ignore something that was moved in legislation. Bill C-49 is absolutely essential, because we are dealing with the need to be able to compete on the maritime east coast when we're losing out to the Biden administration. That is something the Conservatives don't want us to talk about, so I'm not surprised they are interfering and attempting to, again, play gong show games here.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Angus, I will ask you to hold. We have a point of order from Mr. Falk.

Mr. Falk, keep the point of order to the procedural issue at hand.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

On the procedural issue, and I'll say it again, Mr. Chair, you've outlined very clearly to this committee what it is that we are to be debating at this moment. We're debating the subamendment to the amendment to the motion.

Mr. Angus is consumed with speaking about everything else but the subamendment. The subamendment pertains to bringing witnesses in from his riding to speak to the whole issue—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Falk.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I keep getting interrupted.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for your point of order. You made the same point of order previously.

I will ask the member to—

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.