Evidence of meeting #80 for Natural Resources in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was point.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Colleagues, before I proceed to any more points of order, I'm going to start by reading a small passage for all members to reflect on, to consider and to think about because I believe this is a very important passage on where we are with this committee.
This is in chapter 20 on page 1058, if anybody wants to write that down and follow along.
This is in the section “Committees and Questions of Procedure and Privilege”, under “Disorder and Misconduct”:
Disorder and misconduct in a committee may arise as a result of the failure to abide by the rules and practices of a committee or to respect the authority of the Chair. Disorder and misconduct also include the use of unparliamentary language, failure to yield the floor or persistent interruption of the proceedings in any manner.
This is a very clear statement on page 1058 in chapter 20.
All of us here on committee, as committee members, should take a moment to reflect on that and think about how we want to proceed moving forward because it is quite clear in this passage what our roles are as committee members on this committee.
Now, I am going to go back to where we left off where, Mr. Kelloway.... I had suspended, and I want to remind folks of the reason I suspended. I read this passage because I found there to be a number of people speaking across the floor and having conversations that were interrupting the business of this committee.
Mr. Kelloway, my apologies earlier for cutting you off to suspend this meeting. I did believe that for the best interest of committee members and the health and safety of our interpreters we needed to take a pause for a few minutes.
As we're back, Mr. Kelloway, I will ask you, on the point of order, to be succinct and state the procedural relevance of your point of order.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
The procedural relevance is, by hearing Mr. Angus, we can get moving on the motion, which is absolutely critical for my part of the world, Atlantic Canada.
It's important to jobs and economic development and in terms of new green energy opportunities in Atlantic Canada, so my hope is that we can get moving on this, move to Mr. Angus so that we can get to work on the amendments that need to be made that are going to impact not just the people in my riding of Cape Breton—Canso but in all of Atlantic Canada.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.
Colleagues, Mr. Kelloway is a new member to this committee. He's been waiting patiently. He's had his ability to speak.
Thank you for providing your point of order, Mr. Kelloway, on the importance of allowing the member who has the floor to be able to participate.
I'm now going to proceed. We have several points of order, and I'm going to proceed to Mr. Genuis on a point of order.
Mr. Genuis, I would ask you to be succinct on your point of order, on your procedural concern, so that we can move forward to the next point of order from one of our colleagues who is also waiting to provide a point of order.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Chair.
In the time these proceedings have been going on, I have not at any point been able to finish a point of order.
In every case, when I've raised points of order, they have been in relation to matters of order, unlike the last one.
I do have a number of matters of order that I wish to raise. I know Mr. Angus—sanctimonious over there—is interrupting with heckling, which I'm not too particular about, honestly, but I just think it should be noted, given how—
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Well, we're getting into debate. We're getting into other....
We've talked about ensuring that we respect each other on this committee, that we not engage in debate and be succinct on the point of order.
I will go back to you, Mr. Genuis, but I do want to hear the next member, Mr. Falk, on a point of order, who's been waiting very patiently.
Be succinct on your point of order, and then we can proceed.
Mr. Genuis, on the point of order.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Chair.
On decorum, I was pointing out that I was being heckled by Mr. Angus, despite Mr. Angus describing in the most dramatic terms any instance of someone having a side conversation while he's speaking.
It continues.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Mr. Genuis, I want you to focus on the point of order. Don't debate what a member has said or not said.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Can we go directly to your point of order, please.
I want to give you the opportunity to state your point of order, but we do not want to engage in debate.
What is the procedural concern that you would like to raise through your point of order?
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Chair, first, as a procedural matter, making arguments about procedure is a point of order. It is not a point of debate. It is a point of order to make arguments about procedure, as I was just doing.
Second, questions around Mr. Angus's heckling of other members is a matter of order. It is definitely a legitimate point of order to raise, especially given that he calls out others.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Mr. Genuis, I'm going to ask you to pause right there on the point of order.
I'll ask you to continue on your point of order that you've raised in a moment.
Mr. Angus, go ahead on a point of order, please.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I'm sorry, but he's using his platform to make personal attacks, just as he did against Ms. Lapointe. That's not a point of order. It's an attempt to put falsehoods on the record.
I'm here to do my job. I've been denied, for over six hours, the right to speak on issues of workers. We know that they shut down workers when they came to speak. They've never allowed workers to speak. He cannot be using his point of order to make personal attacks and falsehoods about me in an attempt to insinuate it into the record.
He needs to focus. Either he has to challenge the chair or he has to allow other members to participate. He has obstructed that for six hours.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Mr. Angus, thank you for your point of order.
Mr. Genuis, before I go back to you, Mr. Patzer has a point of order.
Colleagues, I just read out a passage on disorder and misconduct. I'm not sure if we've effectively taken the time to reflect on that passage. It's a very important passage that members should take seriously to make sure that all members can participate.
Respect is the key word. It's a very important word that we all should focus on—respect of each other in how we conduct ourselves in this committee.
Mr. Patzer, go ahead on a point of order on Mr. Angus's point of order.
Be as succinct as possible on your point of order, so I can go back to Mr. Genuis to finish up his point of order and then I can move on to the next member. Refrain from engaging in debate through your point of order.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I was actually planning to agree with you and echo your words because you read about persistent interruptions. Again, I will note that's the seventh time Mr. Angus has interrupted one of my colleagues today.
In the last three meetings, he has point of ordered Conservative members 57 times. If you want to talk about persistent interruptions, there's one member who's guilty.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Thank you, Mr. Patzer, on your point of order on a part of that passage.
I would also like to remind colleagues that Mr. Angus does have the floor.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
His inability to participate in this debate should be of concern for all members. He has not had an opportunity, I think, to even provide a sentence to us yet on the subamendment by Mr. Falk on Timmins.
A number of people want to speak to the subamendment to include Timmins in the main motion that was brought forward by Mr. Sorbara.
For all the folks who are following along, we had a following amendment by Ms. Stubbs, which we still need to debate, and now we have a subamendment by Mr. Falk, who suggested a subamendment for Timmins.
As we last left off, Mr. Angus had the floor. I would remind colleagues that there was no challenge to the chair's ruling of Mr. Angus having the floor. Mr. Angus has not been able to participate in his debate on this, nor have other members. I know other members are patiently waiting.
I'm going back to Mr. Genuis very quickly because I know another member has been waiting very patiently.
Thank you, Mr. Falk, for your patience. I'm going to go to you right after Mr. Genuis.
Mr. Genuis, go ahead on the point of order, please. Be succinct and direct on your points of order so we can move forward.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I've been trying, Chair.
I want to front a number of serious matters of order that I think require redress.
First of all, Mr. Angus just accused me of lying, and that is clearly unparliamentary, and he should be chastised for that.
Am I allowed to say anything here?
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Mr. Genuis, we do not want to use this platform of the committee to make accusations against members.