Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues, rather than getting into a back-and-forth, I will ask members once again to focus on the work at hand. There's been a retraction made, so let's refrain from further engaging on conversations that maybe aren't involved with the work we're doing here on committee today on Bill C-50 and the amendment, and now the subamendment that's been proposed.

[Voices]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Genuis, if you would focus on the work and the important subamendment that you brought forward and—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

On a point of order, Chair, I can't hear hear myself think. There is so much chatter going on outside of these desks that it's making it very difficult to understand the interventions of my colleagues.

Can the chair caution those individuals who are not committee members to keep it down, please, or to take their conversations outside?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Brock, for the important reminder for everyone.

I will ask everyone in the room today to keep the tone down so members of committee can do the important work we're doing here on the clause-by-clause, and that members speak only if they're recognized around the table. The clerk and I will make sure that everybody gets a chance to participate who wants to participate.

If you want to have a conversation that's a little more animated or loud, please take it outside. There are opportunities to have those conversations elsewhere.

Thank you for providing that intervention and that important reminder.

We have a lot of quiet in the room, Mr. Genuis. That's a good opportunity for you to continue.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Just to briefly respond to Mr. Angus, I might suggest that even after the next election, when he has an abundance of time, he could do that apology tour in person and visit various European capitals. I'm sure the newly elected Conservative MP for Timmins—James Bay at that time will be happy to provide any form of assistance, letters of introduction, etc.

I am happy to return now to discussion of the subamendment that is before the committee. I'll remind members that after the words “sustainable jobs” in the amendment, it adds the words “that provide powerful paycheques to Canadian workers”. Before I was interrupted by a string of quirky amendments from my New Democratic friends, I was just wanting to frame the argument for the subamendment in terms of where we are and where we should be. This is sort of the core framing section of Bill C-50. It is the section that deals with the purpose of the bill and what the bill intends to achieve.

Of course, Conservatives do not agree with the government's plans in this regard, so we are proposing constructive amendments to redirect the purpose of the bill. The government's plans, sadly, do not include delivering powerful paycheques to Canadian workers. The government's plans are focused on piling taxes on Canadian workers. Our focus is on powerful paycheques for Canadian workers, and we would like to see that be the purpose of the bill, instead of what is actually the purpose of the bill, which relates to their so-called “just transition” agenda.

I could tell you that when I speak to workers, what they are looking for is not a just transition; they're looking for a Justin transition. That is, they want a new Prime Minister who will actually have their backs and will deliver powerful paycheques for workers.

Mr. Chair, the context though for where we are is that we have this piece of legislation with the purpose, as it's currently defined, of pushing this radical just transition agenda. We have Bill C-50, which the government is clearly embarrassed about. How do we know they are embarrassed about it? They don't want it debated. They have put forward this intensely draconian motion in the House that imposes very limited opportunities for any discussion of the bill here at this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Genuis, I'll ask you to pause.

Ms. Dabrusin, go ahead on a point of order.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Chair, the record is quite clear on the basis for the programming motion that we have, that, in fact, it was the Conservatives who blocked us from being able to have a scheduling motion to hear from any witnesses. Therefore, this is where we are. It's unfortunate that they forced our hands to be here, but it was more than 25 hours that we spent, and we were unable to get 10 witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Ms. Dabrusin.

Mr. Genuis, we will go back to you. Go ahead.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair. It's not a point of order, although I'm happy to respond to it.

In terms of why we're here, Ms. Dabrusin is completely wrong about the context of what happened at the committee, and people can look at the record. We had an extended meeting in which Conservatives were trying to put certain arguments on the table with respect to scheduling and were constantly interrupted. In fact, if you look at who was speaking during that time, you'll see that most of the talking was done by Mr. Angus and Ms. Dabrusin, with some contribution from various other Liberal members. Conservatives were trying to speak. We were trying to put some points on the record, and as you are about to see, we were constantly interrupted by spurious points of order from Mr. Angus, exhibit A.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Genuis, I'll ask you to pause.

Mr. Angus, go ahead on a point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Just for people watching who have actually followed this, they're going to be wondering if Mr. Genuis is—

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

This is not a point of order, Chair.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

They're trying to shut me down again.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Hold on for a second, please.

Colleagues, I'm not sure what Mr. Angus is about to say on his point of order, because I can't hear when other members are speaking toward me. When you are recognized, please turn on your mic and speak. If you're not recognized, I don't need folks telling me what is or what is not a point of order. I do want to hear the member and give him an opportunity, procedurally, to let us know on the point of order.

Mr. Angus, I'll ask you—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Very quickly, Chair, I would just like to ask you, during all those meetings in which the Conservatives interrupted continually, did I not have the floor, and was I not allowed to speak? I remember you kept saying at the beginning of each meeting that I had the floor, but then I was not allowed to speak. Therefore, for the historic record, you were there, Chair. I was trying to speak. I wasn't allowed, but we're down now to less than about 37 minutes, and Mr. Genuis is still—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, could I have the floor back? I'd like to actually speak to the subamendment.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

—not getting to the point.

We can do this till 8:30 p.m. I think it's fair to recognize—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, that's not a point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Chair, I'm asking you to clarify who had the forum at that time.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

This is obviously not a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues, we've had extensive debate over the last several months, with members trying to participate who had the floor and the chair's ruling on who did have the floor.

Mr. Angus, you were an individual who did have the floor. Eventually, you were able to provide your important remarks.

I will ask members today to allow other members to participate in these important clause-by-clause proceedings on Bill C-50. As members want to be able to participate, I'll ask all members to allow their colleagues to participate.

Mr. Genuis, you have the opportunity to participate and maybe conclude your comments.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You know, this whole situation is quite shocking. Unlike some people around this table, I come from a riding where energy workers live. I actually represent energy workers in this House. I am constantly interrupted and shut down on spurious points of order. The chair refuses to enforce the rules.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I have a point of order.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I have a point of order.