Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I will ask Mr. Angus to finish his point of order, and then we're going to—

There's a point of order, and is there a point of order on the point of order?

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Yes. It's on what Mr. Angus is saying right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Angus, just pause for one second. We will go to the point of order from Mr. Patzer.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I think Mr. Angus needs to make sure he has his facts correct, because what Mr. Angus is saying is actually not true. That is not what the point of privilege is.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Patzer, we're getting into a debate. I acknowledge your point of order.

Mr. Angus, go ahead on the point of order, please.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Point of order.

Chair, this is the problem we've been having all day.

Yes, Marc, it is the problem we've been having all day while we've been doing this work on behalf of our constituents, which is our duty.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

This is debate.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Charlie has been flip-flopping the entire meeting. Unfortunately, what's happening with your decisions is that they are coming into question, so there's real concern about clarity and confidence in this committee's ability to do its job, which is our duty on behalf of the people who elected us.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We're in debate now.

Mr. Angus, go ahead on the point of order.

Please, can we can focus on the point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I was trying to focus on the point of order, but I see that the pattern all day has been interruptions and intimidation.

Mr. Genuis came to this committee for the first time. His privilege was not at issue here, so when he had the floor he could not take it as an issue of privilege. He was usurping that role. He could have spoken to the motion. Instead, he tried to interfere with something that was not on his turf.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Chair, point of order.

I'm sorry, Charlie. I will wait.

I'm concerned about whether or not your headphone is working properly and that you can hear, because now multiple times you've made a claim that's not true. I will wait until you're done.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

It's not his—I'm finishing my point of order.

I'm sorry, Chair, but on that—

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I will ask all members to let the member who is speaking speak, please.

Mr. Angus, go ahead on the point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I think it's pretty straightforward. Mr. Genuis took the floor when he was supposed to be speaking to the subamendment, which is the latest of their boutique amendments. Then he tried to claim that he was defending the rights of Mr. Viersen, who sits there. He could not take to the House a privilege that had nothing to do with him, and he couldn't use his position while he was speaking to another amendment to raise a point of privilege on behalf of a member who was speaking.

This is ridiculous. What we're witnessing is a gong show.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Angus, thank you.

We have a point of order by Mr. Patzer.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

The whole point here is that any member can raise a point of privilege on this particular issue. Mr. Genuis has every right to raise the point of privilege on behalf of another member. That's fully within the scope here.

His point of order is not correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you.

We will go back to Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Wonderful.

With great respect for Mr. Angus, the motion I moved in relation to the privilege issue was that the privileges of the member for Peace River—Westlock had been breached. There cannot have been much doubt from the beginning about whose privileges I was speaking about.

The privileges of all members are surely a matter of concern for this committee, and I don't think we would—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We have a point of order from Mr. Angus.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I doubt it's a point of order, Chair.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Chair, I asked you to rule on whether or not Mr. Genuis's taking the floor and moving a point of privilege on behalf of another member was actually relevant, or whether this was more of an obstruction.

I was looking for a ruling on whether or not it should be Mr. Viersen raising his issue of privilege, because Mr. Viersen seems to be the person who feels he was slighted, even—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for your point of order.

You asked for a ruling, so I'm going to get advice from the clerk on what you've asked.