Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Angus.

Folks want to hear the amendment. We've heard that on a few points of order, and we're getting many more.

Mr. Patzer, you also have a point of order, so I'm going back to you on a point of order.

Hopefully, there will be no more, and we'll go to Ms. Stubbs, so we can hear the full amendment without interruptions.

Go ahead, Mr. Patzer.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Absolutely. I hope that she's able to get to the full amendment. You might want her to start from the top on the amendment, Mr. Chair.

I'm just going to remind you, Mr. Chair, of Standing Order 117 on decorum. It's up to you to maintain that. When we have members making egregious comments, it is incumbent upon you as the chair to maintain the decorum of this committee.

I would hope and trust that you would do that in the future and not allow this committee to devolve into chaos with members saying unbecoming things of other members.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for your point of order, Mr. Patzer.

I think all colleagues around the table here have, to their best abilities, conducted themselves appropriately. I just hope that we continue that way. I hope we can proceed in that manner, stay focused on what we're studying, which are the amendments on hand, and not pull away from the partisan, or political stuff that we sometimes hear.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I do want to hear the full amendment

Mr. Angus, you have a point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

This is just procedural, given that it has taken x amount of time, without hearing the amendment. We are running out of time. Will you be able to secure resources so that we could sit through question period? We could continue sitting so we could finally actually hear the amendment. I don't want us to come to one o'clock, and still not having heard the amendment.

Can you actually check with the clerk to see if we need to sit through question period? Maybe we need to sit into the evening. I don't know how long this amendment is going to take, but I'd like to know that we have the resources so we can finally hear it.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Angus, for putting that forward.

If committee members choose to sit through this meeting, and as you mentioned into question period, or through the evening, that is up to the will of committee members. If that's the will of committee members, I can ask the clerk to look at further resourcing to ensure that is available for committee members to do so. We can look into that in the meantime.

Thank you for that, Mr. Angus.

Scanning the room, I don't see any other points of order.

Ms. Stubbs, you had an amendment you were partially through when you paused, so you can continue on from where you were on your amendment.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Chair, thank you for clarifying that. I was just wondering if there was a way that we could quickly pull up transcripts or Hansards in real time, because, as you just said, I had already started reading the amendment, and it was after I started reading the amendment that my colleague, John Aldag, had his first point of order and told me to get onto the amendment. Then I responded, and then he did another point of order. You're right. I had already started reading the amendment, so I might suggest that I'm actually not the cause of the delay here. In case I have to clarify— you know this about me, Chair—I have a lot of experience in public, private and post-secondary sectors precisely on energy and resource policy. That's what I did for the vast majority of my career before I was elected.

That's certainly why I'm informed and knowledgeable about it, but it's also why I'm passionate about it. I'm particularly passionate about it because, of course, I represent about 100,000 people across 35,000 square kilometres, 52 municipalities, four Métis settlements and five first nations, all of whom depend on resource development for their livelihoods and their futures. That's why I'm so passionate about it.

I'll have to start from the top where I was already reading the amendment before I was interrupted twice and then accused of being the one who was delaying. I know sometimes it happens to young women and also to old women when they know things about a certain topic, and then men still want to tell them how to talk about it and what to say and how to say it. I would note that I thank my chivalrous and respectful Conservative male colleagues who are responding as they should in my defence. People on the other side should question themselves about their words versus their actions and their fake feminism.

I'll continue the amendment I started before, if that's okay.

John, I'm just wondering if it's okay, because you interrupted me twice before when I was already reading the amendment.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

On a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

On a point of order, go ahead, Mr. Aldag.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Are comments not to be directed through the chair? It's inappropriate to be doing this. We've all said we're interested in hearing the amendment. It is up to the person speaking whether they want to continue to delay or try to deflect onto others.

We've all said we're ready to hear it, but perhaps comments should be directed through the chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for the point of order.

Members, normally I give this preamble at the beginning of a meeting about how all comments should be directed through the chair. I would make sure that all comments are directed through the chair.

Thank you for the point of order, Mr. Aldag.

Ms. Stubbs, go ahead.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you so much, Chair.

I know everybody has to keep working on me with these rules because I'm so hell-bent on representing the people of Lakeland and just focused on the best interests of Canadians and ensuring that their lives are affordable and that they can have a country where they are back in control of their lives and they can afford their essentials and they can capture their dreams. I'm sorry to be so passionate about this and maybe a little bit light on all of the specifics about the rules, but I certainly think the people of Lakeland want me to be fighting on the issues I am fighting on.

To that point then, through you, Chair, could you maybe check with Mr. Aldag to see if he's okay with me starting again on reading the amendment that I was already reading when he interrupted me twice before? That was while also accusing me of delaying, which, of course, is gaslighting, right?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I had given you the floor to read your amendment. I had offered you that courtesy to do so, and the floor is yours to proceed with the rest of the amendment you had started. I believe you paused part of the way through. I just want to make sure the clerk and the interpreters can follow the amendment you are putting forward so committee members will have the ability to examine your amendment and provide good debate around it.

Could we go back to your reading of the amendment?

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, Chair, for giving me that opportunity.

It's so bizarre. I know that the NDP-Liberals do favour censorship and dictating what people can say, see and these sorts of things, but it's all muddled up if you want to accuse a person of delaying and not doing a thing that they were already doing and then you interrupt them twice.

As you have just suggested I do, I will go back to the amendment that I was already reading. I'll start again:

1. First undertake the following study on Bill C-69: Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of the Supreme Court of Canada's ruling that Bill C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, is unconstitutional;

Even more, this is how big a deal it is. That bill's been law and unconstitutional for half a decade. I'll continue:

for the purposes of this study, the committee: (a) hold at least 5 meetings, (b) invite the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources and the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change to appear for one hour each, (c) report its findings and recommendations to the House and, (d) pursuant to Standing Order 109, request that the government table a comprehensive response to the report; and 2. Complete its consideration of Bill C-49.

Unfortunately, I have no option except to do it this way, since this motion for scheduling was was brought to us today. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources did reach out to me over the weekend about planning the schedule for this committee and, of course, I got back to her. I said that our concerns remain the same and our perspective of why this must happen in this order remains consistent with what we've said before and is what we're saying today. Of course it makes sense, because it's the exact order in which the NDP-Liberals have brought in their own legislation.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Do you have a point of order, Mr. Angus?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Yes, I don't believe that this is a proper amendment, because, again, it attempts to hijack the amendment by introducing a motion that Ms. Stubbs wanted to bring on Bill C-69 and completely circumvented—

[An hon. member]

No.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Let me finish. I don't believe it's in order, and it also leaves off Bill C-50, which was part of the amendment, so, in order to address this you have to—

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Angus, can you hold on a second?

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'm not even allowed—

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Point of order.