Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

He just did. He just made an accusation. It's on the record. You can't call someone a liar, and he just did.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues, I have a number of members speaking at the same time.

I appreciate, members, that you're all speaking to me, but the mikes aren't on. I think that's important for the health and safety of our interpreters, but it does make it difficult for me to proceed when we have this disorder. I'm asking all colleagues once again. If you would like to proceed to challenging the ruling of the chair, which every member has the right to do, I encourage you to use your right to do that and to challenge the chair.

Mr. Genuis, I'm going to allow you to proceed very quickly before I move to another member, but we're not going to engage in debate. We've engaged in debate and not succinctly provided the point of order you're referencing. I'm then going to move on to the next speaker, because a number of other people are waiting on the original point of order.

Very quickly provide your point of order so we can move forward, because we do need to move forward as a committee.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, it is very clearly a matter of order that in Parliament or in committee a member cannot accuse another member of lying. Mr. Angus just explicitly did that and now he's suggesting that I'm maligning him by pointing out the fact that he just on the record accused me of lying. That is a violation of the rules.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Genuis, I will ask you to pause. I've asked you not to engage in debate and accusations against other members.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

But everybody else can?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That is a matter of order.

Put on the clerk. Let me ask the clerk.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Okay.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Can we hear from the clerk?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Can we hear from the clerk please, Chair?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Chair, this is disorder and misconduct.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues, I'm pausing here and I hope I don't have to move forward again. Let's have one member at a time and have the opportunity for members to participate.

I'm going to move to Mr. Falk on a point of order.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I was in the middle of my point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Genuis, I've given you a number of opportunities. If you would like to make your point of order, please do so succinctly.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

My point of order is that I was accused of lying by another member, and that is a violation of the rules.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Genuis, I would ask you to turn off your mike, because I have not recognized you at this point. Could you pause? I'm going to give you an opportunity to make a succinct point of order so we can proceed with the proceedings of this committee.

Mr. Genuis, you have the floor. We have another colleague waiting on a point of order. Mr. Genuis, I will now go to you on your point of order so you can complete your point of order. You brought one forward, and we have another one and then we can proceed.

Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, I do have a number of points of order, but I do want to focus on the very narrow point of the rules specifying that it is unparliamentary for a member to accuse another member of lying. Mr. Angus did that. That is a matter of order, and you as chair have an obligation to enforce the rules and to call him to order.

Ms. Lapointe accused me of using unparliamentary language. I asked her to clarify what she thought I said that was unparliamentary, and she has thus far expressed no interest in responding to that request for clarification on that accusation. You, Chair, have not followed up on that whatsoever. You have a responsibility to make a ruling.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Genuis, I'm going to ask you to pause right there to give Mr. Angus an opportunity to respond. There was an accusation made by the member. Mr. Angus has an opportunity to....

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

The issue here, Mr. Chair, is this. The member has denied that I had the floor, which is a falsehood. The chair has ruled on that, but he will not challenge him. The chair has ruled. The ruling of the chair has been sustained.

Now we see his attempt to drag out a fight with Ms. Lapointe, who I think has held herself with dignity.

This attempt to personalize it with me is.... I am somehow a problem for being denied the ability to participate by these constant attempts to interfere.

I would ask, Mr. Chair, to move on, because I have the floor.

I am certainly ready to start speaking to the motion regarding Bill C-50 and Bill C-49, because I have workers who depend on us doing something. If Mr. Genuis's feelings are being hurt because he's being called out for his behaviour, misconduct and disorder, as you said, that is his issue. My issue is speaking for the workers of this country.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a right to raise points of order and—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Genuis, as I mentioned before—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Are you going to rule on the point of order?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I've given you an opportunity to present your point of order. I've given Mr. Angus an opportunity to respond. I'm going to ask you to hold for a second.

Thank you for the point of order, Mr. Genuis. I do not find Mr. Angus's intervention unparliamentary, not from what he said and just restated. Clarification was provided.

I will ask all members once again to not use unparliamentary language in this committee room with one another. Focus on the work we are here to do in committee, not on making accusations and using unparliamentary language against one another, whoever that may be. We've had a number of meetings. We should not be resorting to using unparliamentary language. Canadians from coast to coast to coast are watching our deliberations today.

Focus on the task at hand. I will remind everybody that the task at hand is the motion on the floor by Mr. Sorbara regarding Bill C-50 the Canadian sustainable jobs act, and Bill C-49, the Atlantic accords bill. The motion was moved by Mr. Sorbara. An amendment was moved by Ms. Stubbs. Then a subamendment was moved by Mr. Falk. That's where we are.

Mr. Angus has the floor. The chair's ruling has not been challenged. This committee is at the point where Mr. Angus has the floor to debate. We have other points of order. I'm going through the other points of order.

Mr. Falk, you have a point of order. Thank you for waiting very patiently.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

On a point of order on your ruling.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Genuis, it's not debatable.

[An hon. member]

Members are allowed to call each other liars?