Natural Resources Committee on Jan. 29th, 2024

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That's debate. That's not a point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

It helps us understand where we're going with these guys.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It's just a rude interruption.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Hold on, colleagues.

Once again, I'll encourage all colleagues to make sure their point of order is a point of order relevant to the conversation and to make sure we don't use it as debate. I would also ask all members to stay in line with their questioning.

Mr. Small, it's back to you.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hope that time goes back onto my time, respectfully.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

It was paused.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

We oppose this legislation. When we voted for it, obviously we opposed it. We oppose it because the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers wrote you a letter, which I have right here.

I don't know if you read it. It's dated August 8. Did you read this letter from CAPP?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I'm sure I did.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

I certainly hope you did.

CAPP is concerned that proposed section 56.1 in this bill is going to shut down the oil and gas industry off Newfoundland and Labrador.

Will you remove proposed section 56.1 from this bill to address their concerns?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

This bill was negotiated in tandem with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, which is obviously a significant participant in enabling the offshore energy industry. It is something that we and they are fully comfortable with.

We see the bill as standing as it is, subject to the discussion that this committee will have, obviously.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Minister, I'd like to know how you hoodwinked the provinces in Atlantic Canada to support this legislation. How did you pull the wool over their eyes?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

My goodness, I have a lot more respect for Premier Furey and Premier Houston than you perhaps do. At the end of the day, both of them see this as an enormous economic opportunity. Both of them came to us to ask that this be done. Both of them engaged in negotiations on this.

I can't speak for them, but I am obviously very shocked that you would see them as being that weak in their ability to negotiate on behalf of their provinces.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Wilkinson, I don't think they're weak leaders.

Proposed section 56.1 gives you the unilateral power, with the unconstitutional Bill C-69, to create marine protected areas, so that you can pull development and exploration permits without an environmental impact study.

In 2023, we saw a record 37 parcels of leases put forward off the east coast of Newfoundland and Labrador. How many of those were actually bought?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Industrial development is important and so is the protection of biodiversity—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

This is an easy one.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Biodiversity is in decline around the world.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

How many were bought?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

It's important that we are protecting particularly sensitive areas. I'm not sure why the Conservative Party doesn't believe in the protection of biodiversity.

At the end of the day, under this bill, the federal government can't unilaterally create a marine protected area or a marine refuge. It has to be done in conjunction with the province or territory.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

You didn't answer the question, Mr. Minister.

How many blocks were sold off the east coast of Newfoundland and Labrador in 2023? How many parcels were sold, out of the record 37 that were offered up? How many?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

None were sold.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

It was zero.

How many millions of dollars' worth of leases were sold in the Gulf of Mexico in that same year?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I do not know the answer to that question.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

The answer is that 382 million dollars' worth of leases were sold in the Gulf of Mexico.

Why would these same oil and gas producers trip over themselves to drill and explore in the Gulf of Mexico and completely walk away from Newfoundland and Labrador's offshore oil and gas industry?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Businesses make decisions based on the development of the business case. They would make their own decisions. I'm not going to put myself in the mind of Exxon Mobil, Shell or anybody else.

At the end of the day, they will make their decisions based on the overall economics of the project and their view about the future of energy.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

In June, after this legislation was tabled, teams from 10 major oil and gas producers were poring over data that was tabulated for all 37 parcels of land. They were preparing their bids. Industry sources told me that 10 companies were preparing bids. When this legislation was tabled, the interest waned.

Why are you trying to kill Newfoundland and Labrador's offshore oil and gas industry with the fear and instability that this legislation is presenting to our producers?