Evidence of meeting #81 for Natural Resources in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wind.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal George Chahal

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 81 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Natural Resources.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, October 17, 2023, and the motion of Wednesday, December 13, 2023, the committee is commencing consideration of Bill C-49, an act to amend the Canada–Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act and the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

Regarding the committee's study of BillC-49, I would like to remind members that all amendments, including subamendments, must be submitted in writing and sent to our committee clerk. Should you wish to propose amendments during clause-by-clause consideration, please send the legislative counsel, Marie Danik, your written instructions as soon as possible. She will ensure that amendments are drafted in the proper legal format.

Since today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of members and witnesses.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike and please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

There is interpretation. For those on Zoom, you have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

Although the room is equipped with a powerful audio system, feedback events can occur. These can be extremely harmful to interpreters and cause serious injuries. The most common cause of sound feedback is an earpiece worn too close to a microphone. We therefore ask all participants to exercise a high degree of caution when handling the earpieces, especially when your microphone or your neighbour's microphone is turned on. In order to prevent incidents and safeguard the hearing health of interpreters, I invite participants to ensure that they speak into the microphone into which their headset is plugged and to avoid manipulating the earbuds by placing them on the table away from the microphone when they are not in use.

I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. Additionally, screenshots or photos of your screen are not permitted.

With us today, we welcome the Honourable Jonathan Wilkinson, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources. With Minister Wilkinson we have members from the Department of Natural Resources: Michael Vandergrift, deputy minister; Erin O'Brien, assistant deputy minister, fuels sector; Abigail Lixfeld, senior director, renewable and electrical energy division, energy systems sector; and Annette Tobin, director, offshore management division, fuels sector.

Mr. Wilkinson, the floor is yours for five minutes. Please go ahead.

3:35 p.m.

North Vancouver B.C.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson LiberalMinister of Energy and Natural Resources

Mr. Chair, thank you for the invitation to be here to answer some of the committee's questions on Bill C-49.

I would like to begin by acknowledging that we are gathered on the unceded traditional territories of the Algonquin Anishinabe nation.

The legislation in question is an important one for Atlantic Canada's economic future and our country's future, as we work to reduce emissions, build out our electrical grid, create sustainable jobs, supply our allies with secure long-term sources of energy and compete in global energy markets.

It creates the legislative framework for moving the offshore wind market forward in Canada so that we can participate in a trillion-dollar global market that will grow rapidly.

We jointly developed this bill with the governments of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador and engaged in consultation with stakeholders including industry, fishers, energy workers and conservationists.

We have done this because businesses and governments around the world are moving rapidly to seize the tremendous economic opportunities that will come from a transition to a low-carbon future, influenced in no small part by the rapid pace of international financial investments seeking low-emission products and sectors in order to maximize long-term gains.

The executive director of the International Energy Agency said:

The transition to clean energy is happening worldwide and it's unstoppable. It's not a question of “if”, it's just a matter of “how soon”—and the sooner the better for all of us.

Governments, companies and investors need to get behind clean energy transitions rather than hindering them.

Colleagues, today this committee has been entrusted with an opportunity to help Canada build a vital piece of our energy future: an offshore wind industry. At the present moment, 45% of all offshore wind production globally is in China. Among friendly countries, we are seeing large-scale deployment in the North Sea and more recently along the U.S. east coast, which the DOE estimates will attract $12 billion in direct investment annually.

Presently, there are over 40 projects offshore in the U.S. and hundreds more globally that are under way. There is extensive deployment occurring in Taiwan, which will be installing over 700 turbines in the Taiwan Strait by 2025. European countries, including the Netherlands, Denmark and the United Kingdom, have over 300 projects in development. They brought online 4.2 gigawatts of new regional capacity in 2023 and have raised an additional 30 billion euros of investment for eight additional wind farms.

The global race for investment and opportunity is well under way and Canada must not be left behind. Canada's east coast has some of the world's greatest wind resources, which is why companies around the world have expressed interest in developing clean energy in Atlantic Canada's offshore. It is why Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador's governments have been very clear that they wish to seize this opportunity. They have partnered with the federal government to do so.

Premier Furey stated, “Newfoundland and Labrador is perfectly positioned in the green energy transition.... We continue to support the Government of Canada on Bill C-49 and urge the other federal parties to do the same.”

Nova Scotia Premier Tim Houston stated, “Bill C-49 is a necessary first step in unlocking our energy potential. There will be many steps along the road but we are hopeful that Bill C-49 passes so we can get started.”

Our provincial partners understand the urgency of the matter and they know that the global offshore wind industry is a huge economic opportunity. It represents a generational economic opportunity to generate huge amounts of affordable clean power, while creating thousands of good, sustainable jobs in coastal communities across these provinces.

Governments have actively engaged with fishers on this legislation and associated regulations, and we are confident that the development of offshore renewables will create opportunity without compromising the economic prosperity of fishing communities.

The Public Policy Forum has said that just one area off Nova Scotia could power 6.5 million homes and create 30,000 construction jobs. To seize this opportunity, we simply must pass Bill C-49. In fact, in order to release their first call for bids in pursuit of their target of licensing five gigawatts of offshore wind by 2030, Nova Scotia needs the Parliament of Canada to pass this legislation swiftly.

Let me provide a brief overview of what the amendments under Bill C-49 would do.

They would principally expand the two boards' mandates to include the regulation of offshore renewable energy and modernize land tenure, including consultations with indigenous peoples and making accommodations that support treaty and indigenous rights.

They would also ensure that the offshore boards are able to proceed in alignment to keep Canada's international marine conservation and biodiversity commitments through modernized consultation and regulatory tools.

Finally, they would align the accord acts with Canada's Impact Assessment Act.

This is essential legislation that the Government of Canada has carefully developed with our provincial partners at every stage of the process.

The Conservative Party has a choice in front of it: drop opposition and help Canada create thousands of jobs and economic opportunities, or continue to delay, essentially saying you wish to leave this opportunity to Europe, China and others. Drop opposition and come into line with the governments of Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia, including Nova Scotia's Conservative premier. Stop the increasing drift of the Conservative Party into climate denialism. You should end the approach you have adopted towards climate change, which is simply to let the planet burn. It will leave Canada far behind in economic competitiveness and growth.

I look forward to discussing Bill C-49 further with you today.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal George Chahal

Thank you, Minister Wilkinson, for your opening remarks.

We will now proceed to our rounds of questioning. We'll start with Shannon Stubbs from the Conservative Party for six minutes.

Go ahead. The floor is yours.

January 29th, 2024 / 3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that.

Minister, happy new year and thanks for being here.

On what date will your government bring forward legislation to fix Bill C-69, which has been unconstitutional for half a decade?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

When you say Bill C-69, which of the three laws are you referring to?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

On what date will you bring forward legislation to fix your half-a-decade-old, unconstitutional Impact Assessment Act?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Okay, it's the Impact Assessment Act. As we said, we will be bringing forward targeted amendments within the next number of months to address—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

The Supreme Court 108 days ago ruled that the Impact Assessment Act is largely unconstitutional, so on what date?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

No, that's not what the Supreme Court said.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

It absolutely did. If you'd like me to read every clause and every section that it declared unconstitutional—

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

What we have said is we respect the decision of the Supreme Court, and we will be bringing forward targeted amendments in the next few months.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

On what date is that?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

It will be in the next few months.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Here's why I'm asking you that question, Minister. First of all, the Supreme Court ruling that major sections of Bill C-69 were largely unconstitutional was 108 days ago. As the Minister of Natural Resources, it's actually shocking that you have not yet fixed the legislation. It is the backbone for regulatory review and decision-making for investments in traditional oil and gas development and in alternative renewal energy development. Then there's the whole swath of your constitutional overreach in that bill. Conservatives warned you that Bill C-69 would be unconstitutional in all the factors the Supreme Court of Canada ruled on, which you haven't yet fixed. It's shocking that it's 108 days ago, and you still can only say it's in a few months.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Is there a question in there, or is that just a statement?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

There sure is. This is why I'm asking.

Here's Bill C-49. I don't know if you've read it, but I hope you have. All of these yellow tabs are sections from Bill C-69—every single one. Look at how many there are, Minister. You're coming here telling us members of Parliament that we should fast-track and pass this bill when it's been 108 days and you still can't give a concrete answer as to when you're bringing in legislation to fix the mess that you created. Now you want members of Parliament to abandon their due diligence. You want Atlantic members of Parliament in the official opposition to abandon their responsibilities to their constituents, to the people of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador, which they will not do. It's their right to do due diligence.

You want us to pass a bill that is full of sections that the Supreme Court of Canada has declared unconstitutional. How can you justify that?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

I'm sure you have read the bill. Bill C-49 simply clarifies how the offshore boards will work with the Impact Assessment Agency. It does not concern the decision-making framework that was the subject of the court's opinion.

We are confident that the entirety of Bill C-49 can proceed. Any future changes made to the Impact Assessment Act can be reflected in the accord acts, when necessary, to ensure alignment across the statute.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

It's interesting you would say that, because of course the sections of Bill C-69 that have been declared unconstitutional, which are also the sections in Bill C-49, have to do with roles and responsibility and timelines of decision-making. This is also why we need to do our due diligence on your Bill C-49, because what it does is triple the timeline for future regulatory decisions on offshore wind development.

The reality, after eight years of this government, is that you have been hell-bent on killing the energy sector, with the prairie provinces as your top target. However, that has impacted every province of the country, including Newfoundland and Labrador, which has a higher percentage of their GDP in oil and gas than Alberta does.

The truth about Bill C-69 is that it will end offshore petroleum drilling, which certainly is your intention. That's what you love to fly around the world announcing. Meanwhile, this bill, as written, will hinder and hamper investment in alternative renewable offshore wind development because that requires certainty, predictability, fairness and efficient timelines. You want this bill to be passed, fast-tracked, with all of the timelines, all of the red tape and all the inefficiencies from Bill C-69 in it, and you won't even give a date for when you're going to fix it.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

With all due respect, you say that it's tripling timelines. There is no regulatory structure in place to enable the development of offshore wind. That's the whole point of the bill. I would also say that this was developed in lockstep with the governments of Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia, including the Conservative Premier of Nova Scotia. It is—

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

The tripling I'm talking about, Minister—

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC

—a bill that will enable enormous economic opportunities for those provinces—

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

I can explain the tripling in the bill, if you would like.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON

I have a point of order.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal George Chahal

We have a point of order from Ms. Dabrusin.

Ms. Dabrusin, go ahead, please.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON

I'm just going to ask that time is given so we can hear the answers, because right now Mrs. Stubbs keeps talking over the minister and it's impossible to hear the answers.