Natural Resources Committee on Jan. 29th, 2024

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

You are absolutely right, but you have to do the measurements. A number of different technologies have come forward, including satellite technology, that will allow us to be more accurate on the measurements. That's exactly what we will be requiring going forward.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Angus.

Thank you, Minister, for answering all the questions.

We'll now go to Mr. Perkins for five minutes.

Mr. Perkins, the floor is yours.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

I just want to make sure that everybody is clear, because a lot of statements have been made here.

As a Nova Scotia MP and member of the Conservative caucus, I will say that we support the development of offshore wind if it's economical and works and does not displace existing important industries, like our commercial fisheries. Also, we don't support the imposition of the Bill C-69 processes on the development of all offshore energy off Nova Scotia.

You said that the new processes from Bill C-69, which are in this bill, only apply to the review of offshore wind, but that's not the way I read the bill or the way most people see the bill. It's a new process for reviewing all offshore energy projects. These two boards will not be following the process they follow now for offshore oil and gas or for wind. They'll be following the Bill C-69 processes through the IAA. Is that not true?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Again, Bill C-69 had three pieces of legislation in it, so you are referring to the Impact Assessment Act and not to the Canadian Navigable Waters Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That's correct.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Okay.

As I have said, the focus of the offshore boards has always been on a process to assess, initially, hydrocarbon projects. It will now be expanded to address renewable energy projects. The process being put into place is something on which we have worked very closely with Premier Houston, whom you would know very well—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I understand that, Minister, but—

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Every—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm sorry to interrupt, Minister, but I only have five minutes and I asked a very specific question. I don't need another explanation of your discussion with the province.

I asked a question about whether or not the process in Bill C-49 applies to both the oil and gas energy project review processes and the offshore wind project because that's the way the bill reads and you said it doesn't.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I didn't say it doesn't. There are some differences, but the way the regulator goes through the project approval process will be similar.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

This process, we know, has resulted in almost no energy projects being approved since Bill C-69 has been implemented. You're going to apply that cumbersome and awful process not only to offshore oil and gas, but also to offshore wind.

Even without that, in November a proposal for an exploratory well off Nova Scotia was suspended by you after approval by this board, and then it was rejected. In the 30 days in between, you said in the media that in your decision about whether or not to veto it, you needed to talk to interest groups like the Sierra Club. Did you talk to anyone else besides the Sierra Club?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Sure. There were a number of different organizations we talked to, and I certainly talked to my counterpart, Minister Rushton. We made the decision jointly.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Did you speak with any fishing groups, any—

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

There were folks from the fishing community at some of the meetings, yes.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Then I'd like to take you back.

One of the things this bill does—in clause 28, I believe—is give an enormous power to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to say that you cannot do any offshore energy project, including wind, if DFO “may” be thinking about a marine protected area. You'll recall, from when you were fisheries minister, your visit to the eastern shore and the 200 lobster fishermen who came in to greet you on the area of interest off the eastern shore. You'll also recall that it's an area that was set up in 2018.

You were about to turn it into a marine protected area at the time, and the objections of the committee, because nobody had been consulted.... None of those people have been consulted with regard to any of the offshore wind projects to date or the creation of this bill. They pushed back on you because there had been no socio-economic study. You were going to oppose that in an area where they have few opportunities to make a living other than lobster, mackerel and herring. You were going to close it down.

You suspended that, but the Damocles sword is still hanging over everybody, and that's what DFO does. You've given it the power in this bill to stop everything in the ocean with regard to what you want to do with offshore energy. Why would you do that?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

That's not actually what the bill does. There is no ability for DFO or for the federal government to create a marine protected area on its own. That requires, under the accord acts, agreement on the part of both the province and the federal government. That's part of the structure of the accord acts.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It says, “may be identified”, not “it is”.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

You can identify something as a prospective area—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Without actually doing the process....

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

—but you can't do it.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Perkins, and thank you, Minister. The time is up.

We'll move to Mr. Aldag for five minutes.

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Thank you, Minister and officials, for being here. It's good to see everybody.

I'd like to begin by asking a couple of questions. I'll give you the context for them. The memorandum of understanding between the—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Aldag, can you pause for a second? We have a point of order from Mr. Angus.