Natural Resources Committee on Jan. 29th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues, please allow the minister a reasonable amount of time to respond to your question without interrupting him. We can have a smooth meeting if we all stick by those rules.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Great. I will rephrase my question, then.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Minister Wilkinson was in the middle of answering, Mrs. Stubbs.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Under the current legislation, the federal minister has 30 days to respond to a recommendation from the regulator on offshore oil development. Under your Bill C-49, Minister—and it's good that you have the provincial minister included and we support that—that would be 90 days. That's a tripling of the timeline. Not only that, but the same powers exist there as exist in Bill C-69 for the timeline to be extended for any reason, at any time, at the minister's discretion.

That uncertainty is exactly what has killed foreign investment in Canada and energy development in Canada from traditional sources, and it's exactly the kind of approach that will also kill renewable, alternative and wind offshore opportunities for Atlantic Canadians.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

First of all, this is focused on renewable energy, not on oil and gas development, and—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I just said renewable and alternative energy.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

—this regulatory structure will put in place something the provinces have agreed to that will allow us to expedite the work being done to ensure that Canada is keeping up in the world in the generation of offshore wind. This is an important step forward.

I will tell you that Premier Houston and Premier Furey are fully supportive of this legislation, because it's good legislation that's going to actually create jobs and economic opportunity for both provinces.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Well, forgive Atlantic Canadians for being skeptical and asking you the good questions that they must, since of course the track record of the government is killing a tidal offshore wind project off the Atlantic Canadian coast. Isn't that right?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

That is in a bay. It's not offshore. There is a distinction. It is under the jurisdiction of the province, not of the federal government. It doesn't relate in any way to the offshore.

Certainly, tidal energy is an interesting area where there is ongoing development. We've set up a task force to work with DFO—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

The abandonment of these projects comes back to the same problem, which is that they can't see through your red tape mess.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

—and the Nova Scotia government to find pathways through which you can have development of tidal power in a manner that is consistent with the protection of fish and fish habitat.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Minister Wilkinson, for answering Mrs. Stubbs' questions. Time is up.

We will now go to Ms. Jones from the Liberal Party of Canada for six minutes.

Ms. Jones, the floor is yours.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and your team for being here today.

We are starting from a new preface in offshore wind in Atlantic Canada, and it is important that we work with and listen to the provinces so that we get this right moving forward.

My questions are going to be directly related to Bill C-49, which is the bill we're dealing with.

I do agree with one thing my colleague said, which is that uncertainty will kill development. That applies in Atlantic Canada as well. I really hope the Conservatives can find a way to support this bill and support offshore wind in Newfoundland and Labrador and in Nova Scotia, because it is what those provinces and people are asking for.

We know that both Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia have led the way in Canada's offshore oil economy. It has created good jobs and a strong economy in partnership with Ottawa and Canada. The Atlantic Accord provided the legislative strength that all parties needed to succeed.

Now they're ready to develop Canada's first offshore wind project. I am very excited about it, as I know the people in my province are. We know that offshore wind will create good jobs, will reduce emissions and will build a new green economy for the future.

Minister, can you tell us how offshore wind and the important changes we're making today under Bill C-49 can contribute to Canada's net-zero goals and the electrification and decarbonization of Canada's economy, all the while creating opportunities that we need in Atlantic Canada, especially in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you for the question.

Certainly there are enormous economic opportunities. The Public Policy Forum estimates that just one large-scale project would create 30,000 construction jobs and thousands of ongoing direct operating jobs. It would create enough power that we would be able to service most of the homes in either of the two provinces.

It is important from a decarbonization perspective. In the case of Nova Scotia, it's important to decarbonize the grid. It's a bit less so in Newfoundland and Labrador, where the grid is very clean already.

As we look to decarbonize industries, electrify transportation and do a whole range of things, it will be very important for us to have access to additional power. It is also going to create a domestic and export hydrogen industry. We are working very closely with our friends in Germany to enable exactly that.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

If I could follow up, I'd like to ask a question around clean hydrogen.

How will the legislation we're looking at now contribute to the clean hydrogen industry that we are trying to kick-start in Newfoundland and Labrador and export to the rest of the world?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

It's directly related. Both of the provinces' hydrogen strategies focus on onshore wind development in the short term for the purpose of producing hydrogen, but their ability to scale the industry requires the development of the offshore, with large-scale facilities in the offshore.

For both of those provinces to succeed in their aspirations of building out a large-scale hydrogen industry that can service the domestic consumption required for hydrogen and that can be a major exporter, particularly to our friends in Europe, offshore wind is absolutely critical.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I have one more question.

You mentioned already that you have worked with the governments in Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia to draft this legislation. I think it's important that you share with the committee why you felt that was necessary, what the feedback has been from both of those provinces around Bill C-49 and how important it is to the work they're doing.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

It's critically important because the Atlantic Accord is a joint undertaking on the part of the federal government and both of the provinces to do work relating to the offshore together. It is a very interesting piece of architecture for federal-provincial co-operation.

The provinces asked us to work on this because they want to see the development of a large-scale industry on a go-forward basis. Both governments have been enormously engaged and enormously co-operative. Every word in this bill has been agreed upon by the province of Newfoundland and Labrador and the province of Nova Scotia.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I have just one final question.

Can you share with us why Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia want to see this done as quickly as possible? That's my understanding, and I think that was alluded to by my colleague opposite. Obviously they're driving the agenda here.

Do you want to share with us why the timing around it is so critically important for them?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

As I said, the world is moving. Canada is not the only country seeking to seize the economic opportunities that can be enabled through a transition to a low-carbon future. We see significant offshore development going on in Europe. We see significant offshore development going on in the United States, Taiwan and a range of other countries.

If Canada is to be as successful as it hopes to be and the provinces wish to be, we need to move expeditiously. We need to get into a position where we can give comfort to the Germans that we will be able to scale the supply of hydrogen they will need within the relevant time frame.

I would also say that industries here in Canada are increasingly having to account for the carbon embedded in the final products they sell. For us, it is critically important to find pathways through which we can ensure there is abundant clean power available in every province and territory in this country.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Minister Wilkinson.

We'll now go to Monsieur Simard from the Bloc Québécois for six minutes.

The floor is yours, sir.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for being here, Mr. Minister.

Earlier, I listened to your opening statement in which you said that the transition was under way and that it was unstoppable. I think we can agree on that. Unlike my Conservative colleagues, we agree with you about the energy transition.

As a result, I think the energy transition means that we're moving from carbon-intensive energy sources to less carbon-intensive energy sources.

Would you agree with me on that? That's how things are looking, right?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Yes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

So the energy transition will bring about a gradual decline in the production of fossil energy.

When I look at Bill C‑49, I'm still seeing an administrative process to approve new oil and gas projects.

Don't you feel there's something wrong with that picture?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

No, not at all. The amendments in this bill have to do with renewable energy.

As you know, we will need oil and gas during the transition. Those energy sources will be reduced during the transition.

Canada is a major exporter of oil and gas, but now and in the future, we're going to develop renewable energy sources such as offshore wind turbines.