Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 1st, 2024

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

On a point of order, what happened to the hard stop at 4:30?

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Yes. We were told—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We started a couple of minutes late and—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

No, Chair. The conversation that you and I just had privately off mic was that the minister has a hard stop at 4:30. That was fine. You said that Mr. Small gets a truncated

[John Aldag, Liberal, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Our colleagues are stalling so that—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

—amount. I agree.

We're past 4:30. I don't know why there's suddenly a last-minute question.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Colleagues, order.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I'm not done. I don't know why suddenly, at the last minute, the minister—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Small got three minutes. The Liberal time got cut from five to none.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

—doesn't have a hard stop. I'm sure he actually does, and now there's suddenly an extra question.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I've given Mr. Samson one minute to ask a question. He can be under that because of time. The minister does have—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

This goes back to the problem of you, Mr. Chair—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We started five minutes late.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

—with your double standards and rules for thee and not for—

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Minister, it really hit a nerve when you said “provincial autonomy”. The Conservatives are always saying to respect jurisdiction, yet here they're not willing to do it. Is it about Atlantic Canada? I'm not sure.

My question is very quick. Bill C-49 is a great opportunity to support labourers in the maritime provinces and will also, very importantly, move us closer to net zero. Why is the Conservative Party against that?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

The workers in my province, who I am so immensely proud of, and in your province as well, in an industry that I have seen born within my lifetime.... These workers, who have taken on the world in energy, will now move on to this really exciting and amazing new challenge. They are the ones to do it.

I plead with this committee to let the money flow; let the jobs be created. There is nothing bad to see here. We will have bumps along the road. We will have compromises to make. However, at least we can agree on this investment structure. More than that, at least we can agree to respect the autonomy of these provinces as they make their own way into the world and as they continue to build as they have built, realizing the full potential of these workers. We are now able to do things that can take on the world. Get out of the way.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Minister, for your testimony today and for giving us an extra minute or two of your time. Thank you to the officials for joining you.

We will now suspend for five minutes to change panels.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I call this meeting back to order.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, October 17, 2023, and the adopted motion of Wednesday, December 13, 2023, the committee is resuming consideration of Bill C-49, an act to amend the Canada—Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act and the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

In accordance with our routine motion, I'm informing the committee that all remote participants have completed the required connection tests in advance of the meeting.

With us today for the second hour we have, from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, Kathy Graham, director general of marine planning and conservation. By video conference, from the Department of Transport, we have Isa Gros-Louis, director general of indigenous relations and navigation protection, and Joanna Manger, director general of marine safety and security. From the Department of Natural Resources, we have Abigail Lixfeld, senior director of the renewable and electrical energy division, energy systems sector, and Annette Tobin, director of the offshore management division, fuels sector.

Kathy Graham, the floor is yours for five minutes for an opening statement.

[Kathy Graham, Director General, Marine Planning and Conservation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Hello and good afternoon to committee members.

As mentioned, my name is Kathy Graham and I'm the director general for marine planning and conservation at Fisheries and Oceans Canada. I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to appear before this committee on behalf of the department.

The Government of Canada has committed to increasing the conservation of marine and coastal areas to 25% by 2025 and 30% by 2030. This important “30 by 30” target is articulated in the Convention on Biological Diversity's Kunming-Montreal global biodiversity framework, which was adopted during the 15th meeting of the Conference of the Parties in 2022.

In 2023, at the fifth International Marine Protected Areas Congress, which Canada hosted, Canada announced important details for its marine protected area protection standard, through which we plan to prohibit several industrial activities within the boundaries of new federal marine protected areas, including exploration, development and production of oil and gas resources.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada, together with Environment and Climate Change Canada and Parks Canada, is responsible for implementing the marine protected area protection standards with the support of other federal regulators such as Natural Resources Canada, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada and Transport Canada. This bill serves to reinforce the joint management framework with the provinces in offshore accord areas. Furthermore, this bill supports the implementation of the protection standard in new federal sites to be established in the Canada-Nova Scotia and Canada-Newfoundland-Labrador offshore accord areas by harmonizing marine protected area laws and accord acts. Amendments would provide the authority for the Governor in Council, with the provincial minister's approval, to prohibit the commencement or continuation of oil and gas activities and prohibit the issuance of a new interest in areas identified for conservation. The amendments would also enable the negotiation and removal of existing oil and gas interests with compensation in areas that are identified for conservation.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada uses two main types of marine conservation tools to protect marine ecosystems. We use the Oceans Act to establish marine protected areas and use the Fisheries Act to create fishery area closures, which can then be recognized as other effective area-based conservation measures—what we commonly refer to as OECMs—if they meet the criteria set out in the Government of Canada's marine OECM guidance. Areas recognized in this way are referred to as marine refuges. We rely on Natural Resources Canada to provide assessments of the petroleum resources in candidate areas for protection and to help us resolve any issues of concern that may arise as they relate to oil and gas.

We work closely and collaboratively with our federal, provincial and territorial colleagues and indigenous partners throughout the protected area establishment processes. We use the best available knowledge to inform our processes, including scientific, indigenous and local knowledge. We engage and consult extensively with stakeholders across a wide range of industries from the time an area is identified for conservation to when the area is established as a marine protected area or recognized as a marine refuge. We also seek to minimize socio-economic impacts while achieving conservation objectives for each of our sites.

Bill C-49 would make the application of the marine protected area protection standard more consistent across all of Canada's marine spaces.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada is committed to working with provinces and territories, indigenous peoples and industry stakeholders to meet the objective of conserving 30% of Canada's marine and coastal areas by 2030. We will continue to work closely with Natural Resources Canada and the relevant provinces in all aspects of the marine protected area establishment process to ensure that the co-management regime and the provisions of the accord acts are fully respected.

I welcome any questions, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for your opening statement.

We'll now go to Joanna Manger for five minutes for an opening statement.

Go ahead.

[Joanna Manger, Director General, Marine Safety and Security, Department of Transport]

Good afternoon.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members for inviting us to speak to Transport Canada's mandate with respect to Bill C-49.

My name is Joanna Manger and I'm the director general of marine safety and security.

I would like to begin by acknowledging that I am joining you remotely today from Montreal, and would like to acknowledge, with respect, that I'm appearing from the traditional and unceded territory of the Kanien’kehá:ka, a place that has long served as the site of meeting and exchange among nations.

As lead department for all transportation issues, policies and programs that promote safe, secure, efficient and environmentally responsible transportation, Transport Canada recognizes the value of offshore renewable energy projects for the Canadian economy and in the transition towards a net-zero economy.

I am joined by my colleague Isa Gros-Louis, director general of indigenous relations in the navigation protection program, to speak about Transport Canada's role and responsibilities regarding navigation protection in relation to renewable energy projects such as those envisioned in Bill C-49.

Transport Canada administers several acts, such as the Canadian Navigable Waters Act and the Canada Shipping Act, 2001, with comprehensive regulatory regimes to support the development of our offshore natural resource potential while mitigating impacts on the public right to navigation, navigation safety, and the safety of mariners and passengers on board vessels. Transport Canada anticipates that the amendments proposed in Bill C‑49 will have no impact on the enforcement of these acts.

The Canadian Navigable Waters Act enables Transport Canada to take actions that protect the public right to navigate on all Canadian navigable waters by regulating structures, devices or things—known as works under the act—that are built or placed in Canadian waters, meeting the internal waters and the territorial sea of Canada, which generally extends up to 12 nautical miles from the coast. This means that offshore renewable energy projects proposed within Canadian waters would require proponents to apply for an approval under the Canadian Navigable Waters Act to build any works. This allows Transport Canada to assess impacts to navigation so that we may mitigate them.

Generally speaking, these mitigation measures involve lighting or marking requirements to ensure these works are visible to navigators in the area to promote the safety of vessels and the works. Such mitigation measures are normally included as conditions in an approval. The Canadian Navigable Waters Act would, however, not apply to offshore renewable energy projects that would be proposed in the exclusive economic zone of Canada, as these are outside the mandate of our legislation.

Transport Canada's marine safety and security program develops, administers and enforces policies and regulations made under the Canada Shipping Act, 2001, to ensure the safe operation and navigation of vessels, the protection of life and property, and the prevention of ship-source pollution.

Some of the regulations that apply to navigation in the current context include the vessel pollution and dangerous chemicals regulations, the navigation safety regulations, 2020, the vessel construction and equipment regulations, and the marine personnel regulations.

Transport Canada, Natural Resources Canada, the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board and the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Board have a long history of co-operation when it comes to the safety of offshore operations.

Generally speaking, the Canada Shipping Act, 2001, and its regulations apply to all vessels while in transit to any offshore facilities. Once on site, vessels directly engaged in offshore drilling and production activities are only subject to regulations implemented by the relevant offshore board. Any vessels not directly engaged in offshore drilling activities fall under the Canada Shipping Act, 2001, and regulations implemented by the relevant board. Navigational safety around offshore structures outside the 12-nautical-mile limit would fall under the authority of the Canada Shipping Act, 2001, and regulations such as the navigation safety regulations.

The exact nature of measures taken will depend on the scale and scope of the project undertaken and will be determined after a collaborative process involving the proponent, Natural Resources Canada, the offshore boards and other stakeholders. Transport Canada will continue to collaborate with Natural Resources Canada, other federal departments, other jurisdictions, industry and indigenous peoples to ensure that current and future transportation legislation and regulations continue to protect the safety of navigators and the right to navigate, while allowing Canadians to benefit from the advancement of offshore renewable energy projects.

I look forward to answering your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for your opening statement.

We will now proceed to our first round of questions, with Mr. Jeremy Patzer from the Conservative Party of Canada for six minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Patzer.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you to all the officials for being here.

Right off the top, it doesn't really matter to me which one of you answers it, but Ms. Graham, this may be easiest for you.

What is the current percentage of MPAs in Canada?

[Kathy Graham]

Right now, 14.66% of Canada's marine space is protected.